Rudolf Hess in Spandau

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
13,833
SoCal
#22
He was Deputy Fuhrer to Adolf Hitler., leader of a regime which murdered political opponents from the very beginning.

He would have had complete knowledge of and complicity in the Holocaust. I date the Holocaust from1935.That was the year of Goring's notorious 'Nuremberg Laws" . These Laws stripped German Jews of their citizenship and of all rights and privileges under German law.

There were several attempts over the years to have Hess' sentence commuted, and him released.These appeals were squashed by the Russians, who had lost more than any other single country in WW2.

Do I think the life sentence was too much? Not for a second.
If one wants to be fair, though, the Holocaust only began after Operation Barbarossa--which began a month after Hess's flight to England.

I suspect that his life sentence was in large part due to his lack of remorse. Albert Speer probably did worse things and yet only got 20 years at Spandau because he expressed remorse.

Also, ironically, I think that a death sentence would have been better for Hess since it would have allowed him to avoid 40 years of misery at Spandau.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
13,833
SoCal
#23
I read an article few hours ago that confirmed that the man who hung himself in 1987 was indeed Hess, putting to rest a conspiracy theory which alleged it was not him.
DNA proves "Prisoner No. 7" who died in Spandau Prison really was Rudolf Hess
You know, I really do wonder if Hess would have eventually been released had he not committed suicide in 1987 and lived long enough. I mean, (West) Germany would have certainly been pushing for this, but I strongly suspect that the Russian people would have been extremely hostile to such a move even after the collapse of the Soviet Union due to the extremely massive losses that they, their relatives, and their ancestors suffered in WWII--as well as due to Hess's continuing lack of remorse for what he did.
 
Oct 2018
1,209
Adelaide south Australia
#24
If one wants to be fair, though, the Holocaust only began after Operation Barbarossa--which began a month after Hess's flight to England.

Nup. I date the Holocaust as beginning in 1935, with the Nuremberg Race laws which stripped german Jews of their citizenship and rights under law.

I've had a bit of a look around. Seems there is no consensus:

The Holocaust, also referred to as the Shoah,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust#cite_note-7 was a genocide during World War II in which Nazi Germany, aided by its collaborators, systematically murdered some six million European Jews,[c] around two-thirds of the Jewish population of Europe,[d] between 1941 and 1945.[7] Jews were targeted for extermination as part of a larger event involving the persecution and murder of other groups, including in particular the Roma and "incurably sick",[8] as well as ethnic Poles and other Slavs, Soviet citizens, Soviet prisoners of war, political opponents, gay men and Jehovah's Witnesses, resulting in up to 17 million deaths overall.[e]

The Holocaust - Wikipedia



Nazis were willing to claim that virtually anything was the fault of the Jews. The Holocaust can be said to have really begun when soldiers returning from World War I began spreading rumors saying that Jewish collaborators had “stabbed them in the back” during the war. Nazi propagandists took these stories and brought them together into a propaganda campaign that convinced many people that Jews were the enemies of Germany.

Why did the Holocaust start?

I guess I'll agree to differ.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
13,833
SoCal
#25
The Wikipedia article that you linked to gives the timing of the Holocaust as between 1941 and 1945. Sure, some Germans arguably set the stage for the Holocaust much earlier--for instance, with the stab-in-the-back myth in World War I and with allegations of Jews being disloyal (which existed in Germany even before WWI). However, the Holocaust-itself--as in, the mass murder of European Jews--only began in 1941. This is a fairly obvious conclusion considering that if anti-Nazis in the German military would have staged a successful coup in 1939 or early 1940, then there would have been no Holocaust and the six million Jews who ended up being murdered in the Holocaust in real life would have still been alive and would have been allowed to live out their lives and die of old age.
 
Likes: Aemilianus
Oct 2018
1,209
Adelaide south Australia
#26
The Wikipedia article that you linked to gives the timing of the Holocaust as between 1941 and 1945. Sure, some Germans arguably set the stage for the Holocaust much earlier--for instance, with the stab-in-the-back myth in World War I and with allegations of Jews being disloyal (which existed in Germany even before WWI). However, the Holocaust-itself--as in, the mass murder of European Jews--only began in 1941. This is a fairly obvious conclusion considering that if anti-Nazis in the German military would have staged a successful coup in 1939 or early 1940, then there would have been no Holocaust and the six million Jews who ended up being murdered in the Holocaust in real life would have still been alive and would have been allowed to live out their lives and die of old age.
As I said, there is no real consensus. Although I think the 'betrayed in WW1' is a bit of a stretch,I'm still comfortable with1935., but won't argue over a pedantic point. Doesn't really matter when it began, it was still the greatest crime in recorded history, imo.
 
Likes: Futurist

SPERRO

Ad Honorem
Mar 2011
3,480
North East England
#28
That's an interesting idea, Kevin, can't rule out anything :) Brooke Barracks was home to various infantry battalions, the Irish Guards were in the other half of the camp, alongside our battalion. The prison was only there a short time afterwards, gone before the Light Infantry turned up to take over. There were a lot of gaffers turning up when Hess had gone.

Brooke Barracks was on Wilhelmstraße, Spandau district. I don't remember a Bank, but we turned right out of the barracks to go home, and there was some kind of shopping centre about half a mile up the road. So there could have been a Bank. Brooks Barracks

QUESTOR might be interested in these links:
Spandau Prison

Berlin - Cold War soldiering

I've just seen there's a lot of speculation and rubbish all over on the Internet. But there must be genuine memoirs out there, maybe on genuine regimental blogs not daft books and societies :)
I was on troop replacement duty (temporary cover for Berlin garrison troops on annual leave) in 1973. I was billeted in Smuts Barracks adjoining Spandau prison. A couple of days after arrival, I was given the opportunity to eyeball Hess from an adjacent building. He was agile enough to kick a ball up against a wall but walking, he followed the same path all the time. He was also moved to a different cell every week. At this time, the Russians had the guard duty (changed quarterly), but the routine was the same.
 

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