Russia's post-WWI western borders in a White victory scenario

Apr 2019
85
Ireland
#2
I believe they would have looked much the same and would still have caused conflict with Poland once government was on a secure footing. If the Whites had an early superiority in the civil war do you believe the borders would have been more favourable towards Russia?
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
8,887
#3
The White Leadership was VERY crackpot. The war against Poland will still almost certainly happen. The Borders will be decided by warfare and teh balance of forces. Which is very hard to predidct
 
Likes: Futurist

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,070
SoCal
#4
If the Whites had an early superiority in the civil war do you believe the borders would have been more favourable towards Russia?
Possibly. The best move for the Whites would have been to expand up to the Curzon Line and stop there. I do wonder whether the Poles would have accepted such a border or whether they would have tried launching an offensive to liberate the Kresy, though.

As for the Baltic countries, I wonder how much Poland would be willing and able to help them out in this scenario. The Whites will very likely want to conquer these countries, but Poland will very likely oppose such a Russian move.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,070
SoCal
#5
The White Leadership was VERY crackpot.
How so?

The war against Poland will still almost certainly happen. The Borders will be decided by warfare and teh balance of forces. Which is very hard to predidct
I think that the Whites might be more likely than the Reds to stop at the Curzon Line, though. The Whites won't have a Messianic vision of world revolution like the Reds had.

The Whites are likely to make a move on the Baltic countries, though; could Poland successfully stop them?

I'm not sure about Finland, but my guess is that the Whites leave Finland alone.

As for the Caucasus, I'm presuming that the Whites will reconquer them just like the Reds did in real life. Ditto for Central Asia.
 
Apr 2019
85
Ireland
#6
If the Whites advanced as far as the Curzon Line, Poland may have come under pressure from Britain and France to have this as the border. Long term I'd say Whites would like to recover all losses and recover 'prestige' as this is usually the mark of imperialism. I agree about the Messianic vision:)
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,070
SoCal
#7
Agreed that Britain and France are likely to push Poland to agree to the Curzon Line in this scenario. In real life, France wanted a big, strong Poland because the Soviet Union was both hostile and unreliable, but in this scenario, France would presumably want a White-led Russia to be its ally and would thus want to avoid large disputes between Russia and Poland.

The question is, though, would Poland actually have both the will and the military power to defeat a Russian invasion of the Baltic countries?
 
Apr 2019
85
Ireland
#8
An attack on these states could only be interpreted as a sign of things to come by the Poles. Against the Reds, the Poles managed to turn them back, against expectations at Warsaw. A White offensive against the Baltic States and a Polish counter could have the effect of throwing either side off balance. At best this counter by the Poles may just turn out to be a successful attacking defence of their borders rather than being able to prevent the Baltic invasion. I beleive the will would have been present but not sure how the military power would have played out. Would a White army been more efficient than a Red one?
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,070
SoCal
#9
Would a White army been more efficient than a Red one?
Probably not, but then again, Poland probably isn't going to be getting as much support from the West in this scenario. I don't know how important Western aid was to Poland in this war.
 
Oct 2012
610
#10
How so?



I think that the Whites might be more likely than the Reds to stop at the Curzon Line, though. The Whites won't have a Messianic vision of world revolution like the Reds had.

The Whites are likely to make a move on the Baltic countries, though; could Poland successfully stop them?

I'm not sure about Finland, but my guess is that the Whites leave Finland alone.

As for the Caucasus, I'm presuming that the Whites will reconquer them just like the Reds did in real life. Ditto for Central Asia.
The whites did have a messianic mission to restore the Russian Empire and it`s pre war borders.