Should Europeans offer their apologies for their colonization?

Should the European apologize for their colonization?

  • Yes

    Votes: 29 11.5%
  • No

    Votes: 147 58.3%
  • No, but educate the European children more about this subject

    Votes: 76 30.2%

  • Total voters
    252
  • This poll will close: .
Oct 2011
335
Croatia
Are you trying to belittle their support? But yes who in his or her right mind would support western backed islamists who have one job only: to push out of the region every single non-Sunni and then give away the oil for free to the americans like the Saudis???
My point is that Assad is their best choice for survival. Largely (but not only) for the reasons you mentioned.

Oldest Muslim country like Najd and Hejaz? These regions didn't have sizable Christian coummunities to begin with
Arabia did have, even if most of them were various types of heretics. They even had a Christian empire:
Fortress in the Sky: Buried Christian Empire Casts New Light on Early Islam - SPIEGEL ONLINE - International

same applies to Najd and Hejaz
Indeed.

I remember having read that there were pagans in Yemen until the 18th century
According to Islam, anyone who is not Muslim, Christian or Jewish is a pagan. It does not necessarily imply paganism as commonly understood (polytheism). Likewise some Christians may use it in a more restricted sense. So question is where did you read it and which definition was being used.

DItto.... The Middle East turned into muslim majority in the 10th century 300 years after the muslim conquests at the exact same time Europe turned into christian majority.... This wasn't a coincidence. Had the Europeans not hijacked Christianity, the Middle East would probably still have a christian majority.
And what is so special about 10th century that would cause it? And keep in mind, I'm talking about 10th century Greece, which was then part of Roman Empire, which had been officially Christian for around 600 years at that point.

Middle East would have only kept Christian majority if Islam had somehow been defeated. Europeans did not "hijack" Christianity, as you wrote, Christianity was simply pushed out of Asia and North Africa by the expansion of Islam.

sure, I also strongly reject the current islamist imperialism which is a tool of the west to push out every non-sunni and then steal oil. On the surface sunnis and americans appear to be enemies, but behind the doors they work closely together to push out every non-sunni. In the begining of the so-called "syrian uprising" the sunnis were yelling "christians to beirut, the alawites to the grave" all the while western leaders were busy screaming "assad must go!" and crying rivers of tears for the so-called sunni "rebels".
While I agree with what you wrote, we're talking about historic imperialism here. Islamic imperialism began in 7th century. "European" imperialism is technically a product of Islamic imperialism since, as I wrote before, Europe as a geopolitical entity only came into being as a consequence of expansion of Islam. Before then, Western civilization was a Mediterranean one, with only a bunch of barbarians to the north of Danube and Rhine. Even discovery and colonization of Americas happened when they did only because of conquest of Constantinople by the Turks.

More specifically, French only conquered Algeria in order to stop Barbary Pirates.

Related:
https://static.cambridge.org/resour...20032540-0588:19074map9_1.png?pub-status=live
https://decolonialatlas.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/the-christianization-of-europe.png

Also relevant:
The Truth About Western “Colonialism”
 
Likes: Isleifson

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,647
New Delhi, India
Reply to OP: Does it matter now. If European countries want their children to know about the third world, they are welcome. If not, the loss is theirs.
 
May 2019
4
Spain
A nation shouldn't apologize at all for what it did in its past. However, it's important that they acknoweldge it happened. Like, just accept the Rape of Nanjing and the Armenian Genocide already, for Christ's sake.
 
Likes: Picard
Dec 2015
510
Middle East
My point is that Assad is their best choice for survival. Largely (but not only) for the reasons you mentioned.



Arabia did have, even if most of them were various types of heretics. They even had a Christian empire:
Fortress in the Sky: Buried Christian Empire Casts New Light on Early Islam - SPIEGEL ONLINE - International



Indeed.



According to Islam, anyone who is not Muslim, Christian or Jewish is a pagan. It does not necessarily imply paganism as commonly understood (polytheism). Likewise some Christians may use it in a more restricted sense. So question is where did you read it and which definition was being used.



And what is so special about 10th century that would cause it? And keep in mind, I'm talking about 10th century Greece, which was then part of Roman Empire, which had been officially Christian for around 600 years at that point.

Middle East would have only kept Christian majority if Islam had somehow been defeated. Europeans did not "hijack" Christianity, as you wrote, Christianity was simply pushed out of Asia and North Africa by the expansion of Islam.



While I agree with what you wrote, we're talking about historic imperialism here. Islamic imperialism began in 7th century. "European" imperialism is technically a product of Islamic imperialism since, as I wrote before, Europe as a geopolitical entity only came into being as a consequence of expansion of Islam. Before then, Western civilization was a Mediterranean one, with only a bunch of barbarians to the north of Danube and Rhine. Even discovery and colonization of Americas happened when they did only because of conquest of Constantinople by the Turks.

More specifically, French only conquered Algeria in order to stop Barbary Pirates.

Related:
https://static.cambridge.org/resour...20032540-0588:19074map9_1.png?pub-status=live
https://decolonialatlas.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/the-christianization-of-europe.png

Also relevant:
The Truth About Western “Colonialism”
Weren't you the one who stated that around 25 Million Christians live in the ME? 25 Million people are a lot of people and could easily be used by the imperialists to control the region but they are not. How is that so? Is it due to the fact that Oriental Christians are not selling out to the imperialists like do the Moslems? Trust me, Imperialists would have a hard time stealing oil in the Middle East had Arabia been or remained a Christian majority country.

And yes, over the past recent years I have come to realize the similarities between Moslem Imperialists and their western counterparts:
1) Moslem Arabs were from the desert living off camel piss and had no culture just like Europe which was a cow pasture for most of history.
2) Moslems never contributed to civilization and they never had a so called "Golden Age" as all their so called scholars/polymaths were of non-Arab origin and sometimes even non-Moslem origin. Likewise for the Europeans, they never had a so called Age of Exploration. Rather an Age of ExPLOITation.
3) The US has a Bible belt just like Saudi Arabia has a Quran belt. Don't even let me start on their alliance to exPLOIT the region and kick out everyone else.

So, yes you are absolutely correct, Moslems and Westerners are one and the same.. They only pretend to be opponents.
 
Likes: Picard
Sep 2013
900
Chattanooga, TN
No.

For anyone who answers yes, what should Europeans alive today have done differently to prevent the colonization of other countries in the 19th century and before the 19th century?

Europeans should not apologize for colonization because nobody should ever apologize for an action that happened before they were born.
 
Likes: Picard
Sep 2013
900
Chattanooga, TN
where does one draw arbitrary lines in the sand of time.
The line that one must draw in the sands of time for apologizing for something is not totally arbitrary. The line that one must draw in the sands of time for apologizing for something must be sometime after one was born. I ask readers who bridle at my position to tell me how one could have behaved differently to prevent the commission of an act of wrongdoing before one was born (or even conceived).

I was born in 1980. I will never apologize for anything that happened before 1980.
 
Sep 2013
900
Chattanooga, TN
If anything Spain should apologize to the Arabs for the reconquista.

But it isn't necessary to apologise just because they did something wrong. They can go ahead and be machivellian and say "we beat you fair and square". But I sure as heck don't want to hear "because it was a long time ago".
I know that the post I am replying to was made in 2011. What should Spaniards alive in 2011 done differently to prevent the Reconquista from happening? Where did Spaniards alive in 2011 go wrong to help cause the Reconquista?
 

Naomasa298

Forum Staff
Apr 2010
35,023
T'Republic of Yorkshire
Some people seem to believe reparations are in order, by way of immigration: Opinion | Why Should Immigrants ‘Respect Our Borders’? The West Never Respected Theirs
I love how large parts of history are always omitted in these accounts.
it's an interesting point. When Europeans went all over the world in the colonial period, they didn't respect local laws, but demanded that the locals conformed to theirs. If the locals didn't have paper deeds and titles to property, then it was fair game. In the 19th century, a merchant by the name of Charles Townsend refused to bow and get out of the way of a Japanese daimyo's procession, resulting in hm being cut down, and triggering the Anglo-Satsuma war. In Asia, foreigners in China, Japan and other countries could not be tried under local laws, but rather their own laws.

Even today, there are remnants of this. When Australian tourists get caught smuggling drugs in South East Asia, or a British tourist breaks Egypt's drug laws and gets sentenced to a long prison term as per the local penal code, there are large protests. As in "your laws are barbaric, our nationals shouldn't be bound by them".

If a national of a foreign country broke our drug laws we would expect them, to be punished according to our laws.

So why should immigrants respect our laws if we don't respect theirs?

It's simple - because it's the world we live in today. Generally, it's a principle that you respect the local laws when you travel somewhere. If you take naked selfies on a sacred mountain, take a "memento" from a former death camp, insult the local monarch, or demand that girls get taught separately from boys om a Western society, you get what yo deserve. But the principle runs both ways. If we expect them to respect our ;aws. then we should respect theirs.
 
Likes: Picard
Mar 2019
1,599
Kansas
Even today, there are remnants of this. When Australian tourists get caught smuggling drugs in South East Asia, or a British tourist breaks Egypt's drug laws and gets sentenced to a long prison term as per the local penal code, there are large protests. As in "your laws are barbaric, our nationals shouldn't be bound by them".

If a national of a foreign country broke our drug laws we would expect them, to be punished according to our laws.
Yes that absolutely infuriates me. Most countries have the laws that respect the issues that are important to them. It is your responsibility to know those laws, especially the ones that may be radically different to what you are used to. You then have to factor in your nationality. Example an America tourist is going to be watched a lot closer than say a Russian visitor to North Korea.
 

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