Should Europeans offer their apologies for their colonization?

Should the European apologize for their colonization?

  • Yes

    Votes: 27 11.3%
  • No

    Votes: 137 57.6%
  • No, but educate the European children more about this subject

    Votes: 74 31.1%

  • Total voters
    238
  • This poll will close: .

mark87

Ad Honorem
Jan 2014
2,057
Santiago de Chile
The slave trades are not so much a matter of law but a matter of war. Should apologies be offered? Possibly yes. There's no reason why the trades you mentioned should be exempt from apologies, if one is demanded for the Atlantic slave trade.

The Jesuits enslaved large numbers of Japanese in the 16th century/ Do I expect an apology from the Catholic Church? No, because Hideyoshi reacted by banning them, burning Catholics at the stake and becoming friendly with the Dutch.

I was talking about mutual recognition of laws.
There will always be an issue with the mutual recognition of laws because the very concept of human rights (which for instance the UN champions in international law) is a very western thing, it is for practical matters a modern western creation.
Discarding immigration laws is a very dangerous precedent to say the lest, even if it has altruism in it's core, a lot of unintended nefarious consequences can emerge, in the case of my own country and society we are now starting to see that with the current large scale illegal (or whatever politically correct name they have given it) immigration. Once you open the doors to everyone you open the doors to criminals, human traffickers, child molesters and long etc who will also abuse the open borders.
It's not just apologies though, there is an implicit financial burden at stake, possibly massive reparations, if it was truly just apologies I feel almost everyone would be behind that, but when money comes into the equation things get ugly, understandably so. And I'll note the author explicitly states western nations, apparently no one else, I find that unacceptable.
(I had no idea of the the Jesuits enslaving Japanese, learn something everyday).
 

Naomasa298

Forum Staff
Apr 2010
34,376
T'Republic of Yorkshire
The trade was controlled in theory by the Portuguese crown trough the “"nau do trato”, the Japanese called it the “Black Ship” due to its hull colour by the caulking used. But private traders from Macau (and Manila) also were active. The smuggling was intense in the Portuguese colonies in the East. If the smuggling was made trough the “nau do trato” or in other ships that is another theme that it would be interesting to know in detail.

About the Jesuit complicity or at least complacency you may be right. But from complacency to trader goes a wide step. Anyway don’t recall reading anything about the numbers, so calling it large, comparing to a century (the 16th) in that Portugal traded some 150 thousand people from Africa to America, may be an exaggeration or a lack of an overall perspective.
Yes, but all trade leaving Japan would need to land at a port, amd foreign trade was limited to certain cities. At this point, the Japanese were not subservient to foreign powers, so it would not have been safe for a foreign ship to land at take slaves. unless the local ruler was complicit, which is unlikely given that the daimyo needed the manpower for labour and warfare. I'll have to try and find out more, but I can#t see the trade going through ports without a large Portuguese (read Jesuit) presence.

The trade was obviously not large compared to the African slave trade but certainly significant enough to be a factor in the banning of the Portuguese from Japan.

But the question is, should Portugal, or the CAtholic Church apologise for it? I don't believe so. It's too far in the past. No one alive now is affected by it.
 

Naomasa298

Forum Staff
Apr 2010
34,376
T'Republic of Yorkshire
There will always be an issue with the mutual recognition of laws because the very concept of human rights (which for instance the UN champions in international law) is a very western thing, it is for practical matters a modern western creation.
Discarding immigration laws is a very dangerous precedent to say the lest, even if it has altruism in it's core, a lot of unintended nefarious consequences can emerge, in the case of my own country and society we are now starting to see that with the current large scale illegal (or whatever politically correct name they have given it) immigration. Once you open the doors to everyone you open the doors to criminals, human traffickers, child molesters and long etc who will also abuse the open borders.
I didn't advocate open or free immigration. Wgat I'm saying is that immigrants, whether temporary or permanent should respect local laws, both ways.

It's not just apologies though, there is an implicit financial burden at stake, possibly massive reparations, if it was truly just apologies I feel almost everyone would be behind that, but when money comes into the equation things get ugly, understandably so. And I'll note the author explicitly states western nations, apparently no one else, I find that unacceptable.
(I had no idea of the the Jesuits enslaving Japanese, learn something everyday).
Entirely agree.
 

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,707
Sydney
Certainly Japan trade with Europeans was strictly controlled
it would require the approval of the local Daymino at least ,
and yes , Jesuits were essential intermediaries in the trade
I will dig a bit around this subject as it is quite new for me
 
I don't think the county's should apologize. Nor the Europeans. It happened a long time ago, and we are not supporting or doing it anymore. Of course some choose to be stupid and racist, they should apologize.

Sendt fra min CLT-L29 med Tapatalk
 
Jun 2013
745
Agraphur
Also it's really sad only 11% voted yes.
Large parts of Europe had none or extremely peripheral part in the colonization process. (In fact even in those who did the colonization and the spoils thereof involved minorities.) So trying to tar "Europeans" for something they had no part in is insulting and ignorant. What's next, should the Vietnamnese apologize for the Mongols sacking of Baghdad, Being fellow Far Eastern and all?
 

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