Should Europeans offer their apologies for their colonization?

Should the European apologize for their colonization?

  • Yes

    Votes: 29 11.5%
  • No

    Votes: 147 58.3%
  • No, but educate the European children more about this subject

    Votes: 76 30.2%

  • Total voters
    252
  • This poll will close: .

Larrey

Ad Honorem
Sep 2011
5,832
If it is going to be actually sincere, it tends to have to be pretty precise, and thus limited in scope.

Politically those tend not to be particularly popular, since part of the attraction tends to be sheer one-upmanship, and getting the other party to generally prostrate themselves on unclear terms allows maximum leverage. There's little reason to not press the advantage, and demand greater and greater concessions and expressions of shame and culpability if you've gotten the other party to that point.

Which is why we don't get much of that happening in the world.

Usually it tends to be a good idea to try to establish as much documentation of what actually transpired. No one hankering for a certain kind of apology will particularly like that (specificity tends to lead to precision which is limiter – better leverage from the sweeping stuff, if it is accepted).

It's actually one thing what the fate of various indigenous peoples were – relatively weak groups, where they survive, and there the stakes of apologies and even compensations are low – but something different when it surfaces between state actors themselves.
 

notgivenaway

Ad Honorem
Jun 2015
5,780
UK
No.
Not unless Normans apologise for their conquest of England.
Or the Anglo-Saxons for conquering Romano-British lands.
Or Mughals for conquering India.
Or the Qing Dynasty for taking over the Ming Dynasty.

HUmans conquer.
Empires rise and fall.

It may seem "cold", but if we're to "stop" conquest, then we need to acknowledge basic human nature.
Putin invaded the Crimea.
Saddam annexed Kuwait.
We see it happen still in recent times.
 
Aug 2018
594
london
can anyone name any pre-20th century societies or cultures that apologized for conquering or ruling over other people?
 

royal744

Ad Honoris
Jul 2013
10,711
San Antonio, Tx
No. We didn't do anything exceptional. We were just better at it. And we left a lot of good things, too, other than wholesale destruction. None of the people that these countries want to apologise were alive back then, so we're apologising for what dead people did to other dead people in a world that no longer exists. About as pointless an exercise as could ever be conceived.
Look, for example at India. Before the British arrived on the sub-continent, the place was a polyglot un-unified jumble of princely states. The British transformed it into a single entity with an amazingly small colonial military presence. I have some old post colonial Rupee notes where a number of languages spoken on the sub-continent are listed, but the main, banner language is - wait for it - English. This’s has given India a priceless entree into the world in general and Britain and the US in particular.

When Indians occasionally speak of how the British “robbed them blind” there is some truth to this. They were not there to Christianize the population or to help poor mendicants. They were there to make money and for a fairly long time they did. It may even be true that the British made more money after they left compared to when they had to run the place.
 
Last edited:

Naomasa298

Forum Staff
Apr 2010
35,382
T'Republic of Yorkshire
Look, for example at India. Before the British arrived on the sub-continent, the place was a polyglot un-unified jumble of princely states. The British transformed it into a single entity with an amazingly small colonial military presence. I have some old post colonial Rupee notes where a number of languages spoken on the sub-continent are listed, but the main, banner language is - wait for it - English. This’s has given India a priceless entree into the world in general and Britain and the US in particular.

When Indians occasionally speak of how the British “robbed them blind” there is some truth to this. They were not there to Christianize the population or to help poor mendicants. They were there to make money and for a fairly long time they did. It may even be true that the British made more money after they left compared to when they had to run the place.
This is the last time I'm going to warn you about replying to posts from years ago. That user is no longer here to respond to you or defend his points.

The next time, you will be suspended.
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,722
Spain
And why Europe?

Mongols, Turks, Persians, Japaneses, Chineses, Zulu, aztecs, quechuas, Chile, Argentina, Brazil, Morocco, should ask forgiveness... shouldn´t they? I don´t know why Portugal, Spain, France, Netherland and UK should ask forgiveness but not Aztecs, Zulu, Mongols, Ottomans, Egyptian etc...What about Burmase, Khmer or Siamese Empires?

No way.. history is what is... not morale lessons about history and never to pretend to understand the past from the cultural prisms of the present fashion ...
 

royal744

Ad Honoris
Jul 2013
10,711
San Antonio, Tx
That someone doesn't master the grammar of a foreign language doesn't mean he is unfamiliar with the concept of grammar.

I've seen more than one spelling errors, in more than one posts, made by more than one native English speakers, and generally, nobody found necessary to point that in a debate.

Well, almost nobody.

Pointing out the spelling fails into a disagreement to a person using a foreign language is ... low.
Yeah if I tried to post a comment on a French forum in French, I’d be laughed off the forum...maar ik kan het wel proberen in het Nederlands.
 

royal744

Ad Honoris
Jul 2013
10,711
San Antonio, Tx
This is the last time I'm going to warn you about replying to posts from years ago. That user is no longer here to respond to you or defend his points.

The next time, you will be suspended.
Wow. Suspended? I don’t generally look at the dates of discussion forums. I look at the discussion itself and if a post is interesting to me, I will respond. I have asked this question before and never received an answer: if the discussion forum is “too old”, why is it still shown or listed? I had no intention of posting on “outdated”. discussions; I’m here to enjoy the discussions. That’s all.
 
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deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
14,533
Europix
Yeah if I tried to post a comment on a French forum in French, I’d be laughed off the forum...maar ik kan het wel proberen in het Nederlands.
And I would reply the same thing in French too: pointing out language difficulties is anything but an argument.

It's rather pathetic.
 

royal744

Ad Honoris
Jul 2013
10,711
San Antonio, Tx
Are you trying to belittle their support? But yes who in his or her right mind would support western backed islamists who have one job only: to push out of the region every single non-Sunni and then give away the oil for free to the americans like the Saudis???
(my holding)

Forgive me, I must respond: the US does not need Middle Eastern oil. We pump our own and are the largest oil-producing country in the world. We do import some oil from Mexico, Canada and Venezuela.