Should Greece be considered a cradle of civilisation?

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Aug 2010
17,765
Central Macedonia
The primary function of the word "barbarian", and its cognates, is to differentiate members of one's own society from people perceived as being outside of it, and to posit that one's own culture is superior. The word barbaros in [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek"]Ancient Greek[/ame] was an [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonym"]antonym[/ame] for [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civis"]civis[/ame] and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polis"]polis[/ame]. The sound of barbaros [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onomatopoetically"]onomatopoetically[/ame] evokes the image of babbling (a person speaking a non-Greek language).[2]
The Greeks used the term as they encountered scores of different foreign cultures, including the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptians"]Egyptians[/ame], [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_people"]Persians[/ame], [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medes"]Medes[/ame], [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts"]Celts[/ame], [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germania"]Germans[/ame], [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicians"]Phoenicians[/ame], [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_civilization"]Etruscans[/ame] and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthage"]Carthaginians[/ame]. In fact, it became a common term to refer to all foreigners.

Most of the times it was used, it was used to describe people who are not of us.



I am not saying Macedonians were not Greek. It's obviously more complicated than that. I would call them Hellenistic instead of Hellenic. I think it's more accurate that way.



You raised the language issue. Don't you remember? I merely stated speaking Greek alone did not make them Greek.

Jesus was believed by some scholars to know some Greek.

Wikipedia makes a mistake. Although the term "barbarian" was used mainly to refer to foreigners (non-Greek people), in politics and specifically in speeches, it was often used as a derogatory adjective.
Macedonians were Greek (at least since they entered history), because archaeological evidence and historical accounts suggest so.
I don't know if Jesus spoke Greek, but Judea was heavily hellenized until 170 BCE. Then, the Maccabean revolt changed everything.
 
May 2011
363
Sweden
Wrong. Kings always adopt foreign cultures in order to rule.
The Romans adopted Christianity, The Greeks adopted Buddhism in India and they adopted Egyptian religion and culture in Alexandria ONLY because that's how you rule: You become similar with your subjects.
I do not dispute that.

This doesn't show that Ptolemies were Egyptianized, but that they were versatile and adopted some Egyptian cultural elements in order to rule.
Umm - yes it does...? The Ptolemies adopted Egyptian customs, thus they were Egyptianized.

Egypt was Hellenized to the bone.
That is simply not true. Alexandria was a Hellenic city, but Egypt of the Nile remained mostly Egyptian. Greek gods weren't worshipped in Egypt other than by the Greeks and Macedonians; the most important gods to the Egyptians at this time were Ptah(centered around Memphis, i.e. the Nile delta), Amun-Ra(centered around Thebes, i.e. Upper Egypt), the Apis Bull, Isis and Osiris. Even Serapis wasn't very popular among the Egyptians. Egyptian temples built during the Ptolemaic time had hieroglyphic inscriptions. So no, Egypt was most definitely not Hellenized to the bone.
 
Aug 2010
17,765
Central Macedonia
Umm - yes it does...? The Ptolemies adopted Egyptian customs, thus they were Egyptianized.



That is simply not true. Alexandria was a Hellenic city, but Egypt of the Nile remained mostly Egyptian. Greek gods weren't worshipped in Egypt other than by the Greeks and Macedonians; the most important gods to the Egyptians at this time were Ptah(centered around Memphis, i.e. the Nile delta), Amun-Ra(centered around Thebes, i.e. Upper Egypt), the Apis Bull, Isis and Osiris. Even Serapis wasn't very popular among the Egyptians. Egyptian temples built during the Ptolemaic time had hieroglyphic inscriptions. So no, Egypt was most definitely not Hellenized to the bone.

The Ptolemies were only "cosmetically" and superficially Egyptianized....
Greek gods were worshiped in parts of Egypt because as you know Alexandria was not the only Greek colony. Greek gods were imposed even in Judea and worshipped by urban Jews.
I never said all of Egypt was Hellenized to the bone! I referred to the Greek colonies, obviously.
 
May 2011
1,747
Macedonia, Eastern Roman Empire
It is important to mention that Greeks never got Egyptianized, they got Arabized after the Arabic conquest.
 
May 2011
363
Sweden
The Ptolemies were only "cosmetically" and superficially Egyptianized....
I disagree. When you've come to the point where you marry and murder your brothers and sisters without thinking much about it, you've gotten pretty far down the road of Egyptianization.

I never said all of Egypt was Hellenized to the bone! I referred to the Greek colonies, obviously.
Sure didn't sound like it. You said Egypt was Hellenized to the bone, not the Greek colonies - a difference that isn't so obvious when talking to a Graecophile such as yourself. :)
 
Aug 2010
17,765
Central Macedonia
I disagree. When you've come to the point where you marry and murder your brothers and sisters without thinking much about it, you've gotten pretty far down the road of Egyptianization.



Sure didn't sound like it. You said Egypt was Hellenized to the bone, not the Greek colonies - a difference that isn't so obvious when talking to a Graecophile such as yourself. :)

Really? I thought that murder of family members happened in Greece too.
Yes I referred to the Greek colonies, not the whole ancient Egypt.
 
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