Should People with no Understanding of Platonist Teleology, Arithmetic, Geometry, and so forth, even be allowed attend University?

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Aug 2019
89
North Dublin
In what way is logic lacking? Someone who is in doubt of the necessity of acknowledging a telos for existence would dispute your claim. How would you demonstrate to him that (a) teleology is necessary in order to have an intellible form of logic, and that (b) the university today fails in that regard?
Because the basis of learning in the contemporary university is pleasure-based, and therefore non-teleological/non-logical. Telos, and Logic, are, as far as I can tell, intertwined, like siblings.

a) Teleology is defined by the path of Wisdom, and Wisdom is achieved through Logic. Why? As you say, Logic is the contextualisation of facts. Mere non-teleological accumulation of data simply exists for some pleasure, and not for the contextualisation of itself, in order to produce wisdom.
b) As someone has already stated, universities were all modernized in the nineteenth century, "nihilizing" most of their departments.
 
Jul 2019
800
New Jersey
Because the basis of learning in the contemporary university is pleasure-based, and therefore non-teleological/non-logical. Telos, and Logic, are, as far as I can tell, intertwined, like siblings.
Was not learning since Pythagoras' time also pleasure based? As in, learning is desirable because it gives the greatest pleasure to the soul? How is that different from what motivates learning in contemporary universities?

a) Teleology is defined by the path of Wisdom, and Wisdom is achieved through Logic. Why? As you say, Logic is the contextualisation of facts. Mere non-teleological accumulation of data simply exists for some pleasure, and not for the contextualisation of itself, in order to produce wisdom.
You are using loaded (and ill-defined) terms here. What is wisdom? Why is wisdom the highest good? You're going to have to answer those questions first if you want people to understand where you're coming from. I know where you're coming from because I'm familiar with the intellectual tradition you're using as your basis, but most people here aren't. You need to effectively and persuasively answer the two questions I've asked here before you can talk about teleology's importance as a stepping stone to wisdom.

b) As someone has already stated, universities were all modernized in the nineteenth century, "nihilizing" most of their departments.
This should get explained when you explain what wisdom is and how teleology ties into it. Until then, nobody is going to understand why modernization = nihilization = lack of telos = lack of wisdom = lack of genuine human thriving.
 
Aug 2019
89
North Dublin
Was not learning since Pythagoras' time also pleasure based? As in, learning is desirable because it gives the greatest pleasure to the soul? How is that different from what motivates learning in contemporary universities?



You are using loaded (and ill-defined) terms here. What is wisdom? Why is wisdom the highest good? You're going to have to answer those questions first if you want people to understand where you're coming from. I know where you're coming from because I'm familiar with the intellectual tradition you're using as your basis, but most people here aren't. You need to effectively and persuasively answer the two questions I've asked here before you can talk about teleology's importance as a stepping stone to wisdom.



This should get explained when you explain what wisdom is and how teleology ties into it. Until then, nobody is going to understand why modernization = nihilization = lack of telos = lack of wisdom = lack of genuine human thriving.
Learning, generally speaking, can be pleasure-based. I have no problem with that. But if the state invests in the education of students, those students should have mandatory lessons, which are based in teleology, since it is only through this that society's aristocracy can receive wisdom, and thus improve society, and therefore the welfare of all people under the state's jurisdiction.

Wisdom is contextualized data. This context is the basis of teleology, which is the belief that any truly good thing can only be attained, by understanding what it is, and how to get it, which can only be understood within the context of Wisdom itself.
 

stevev

Ad Honorem
Apr 2017
3,609
Las Vegas, NV USA
Blame Prince Albert, the influential husband of Queen Victoria of the UK. The Cambridge curriculum was still very much oriented to philosophy and religion. When he became Chancellor he was able to make major changes in the direction of hard science and applied mathematics, concentrating on practical knowledge. Cambridge in turn influenced universities around the world although Oxford was a bit slow to change.
 
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