since when Indo-Aryans started to burning their Dead instead of burying ?

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,197
New Delhi, India
In all possibility Proto Indo-Europeans originated in the Steppes that's just above Crimea of today in Ukraine and the homeland expands to the Western Borders of Kazakhstan in the East and the border of the Danube valley in the West. Uralic homelands wouldn't be very far considering the clustering of those languages. Probably somewhere little bit North of the Indo-European Urheimat is the Uralic Urheimat.
SA, being present at any time in an area is different from originated in the area. Tilak's theory about origin of Vedas in Arctic is different from Vedas being chanted at any later time in Central Asia or India.
 
Jul 2017
510
Sydney
The only way we can rationalize the East African reception (around the timeframe suggested by Shriner) of bos Indicus (and Sanskrit words) with a good deal of gene flow from the subcontinent is by putting the existence of Indo-Europeans (herders speaking Sanskrit or related dialects) in the subcontinent in about 5000 BC or before, long before the formation of the Proto-European Urheimat (that's what it really was) in the steppes
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,197
New Delhi, India
We are talking about araNya where the Vedic people found deer, elephant, peacocks, etc.. Your argument reminds me of grammatical jugglary that the Tatva VAdis engaged to distort the meaning of Upanishat vAkya "Tat tvam asi".
http://www.aa.tufs.ac.jp/~tjun/sktdic/cgi-bin/dic-srch.cgi?
word=araNyasearch `araNya' in `Apte Dic'
meanings of "araNya" [1]
n.(sometimes m. also){a-stem}
1.a land neither cultivated nor grazed;
2.a foreign or distant land
#06127

https://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/cgi-bin/tamil/recherche (Monier Williams)
1araNyan. (fr. 1. %{a4raNa} ; fr. %{R} Un2.) , a foreign or distant land RV. i , 163 , 11 and vi , 24 , 10 ; a wilderness , desert , forest AV. VS. &c. ; m. the tree also called Kat2phala L. ; N. of a son of the Manu Raivata Hariv. 434 ; of a Sa1dhya ib. 11536 ; of a teacher (disciple of Pr2ithvidhara).

Sanskrit Heritage Dictionary
अरण्य araṇya [araṇa-ya] n. bois, forêt; nature sauvage | lieu isolé, désert; cf. dharmāraṇya.
 
Likes: Kadi
Jul 2017
510
Sydney
http://www.aa.tufs.ac.jp/~tjun/sktdic/cgi-bin/dic-srch.cgi?
word=araNyasearch `araNya' in `Apte Dic'
meanings of "araNya" [1]
n.(sometimes m. also){a-stem}
1.a land neither cultivated nor grazed;
2.a foreign or distant land
#06127

https://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/cgi-bin/tamil/recherche (Monier Williams)
1araNyan. (fr. 1. %{a4raNa} ; fr. %{R} Un2.) , a foreign or distant land RV. i , 163 , 11 and vi , 24 , 10 ; a wilderness , desert , forest AV. VS. &c. ; m. the tree also called Kat2phala L. ; N. of a son of the Manu Raivata Hariv. 434 ; of a Sa1dhya ib. 11536 ; of a teacher (disciple of Pr2ithvidhara).

Sanskrit Heritage Dictionary
अरण्य araṇya [araṇa-ya] n. bois, forêt; nature sauvage | lieu isolé, désert; cf. dharmāraṇya.
Sanskrit Dictionary for Spoken Sanskrit

Here, I'm putting another reference for the meaning of 'Aranya'

We can see that the desert or foreign land meaning isn't much used

Most of the meanings (close to 90%) of Aranya as well as compound words that form from this root are related to the wilderness and forests
 
Jul 2017
510
Sydney
अर्धं वीरस्य शर्तपामनिन्द्रं परा शर्धन्तं नुनुदे अभि कषाम |
इन्द्रो मन्युं मन्युम्यो मिमाय भेजे पथो वर्तनिम्पत्यमानः ||
आध्रेण चित तद वेकं चकार सिंह्यं चित पेत्वेना जघान |
अव सरक्तीर्वेश्याव्र्श्चदिन्द्रः परायछद विश्वा भोजना सुदासे ||
शश्वन्तो हि शत्रवो रारधुष टे भेदस्य चिच्छर्धतो विन्द रन्धिम |
मर्तानेन सतुवतो यः कर्णोति तिग्मं तस्मिन नि जहि वज्रमिन्द्र

I think we can stop debating the location of Rigveda as this hymn (18) I quote here from Mandala 7 talks of Singham (lion)

I don't think we have many options apart from India or Africa
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,197
New Delhi, India
"I don't think we have many options apart from India or Africa."

The mention of lion in this verse is no surprise. This is a hymn written after the coming of Aryans in India and after Sudasa of Trtsus had carved a kingdom for himself in the are where River Ravi emerges from the mountains. And lions existed in Punjab at that time. Thee can be no discussion on Aryans without discussing RigVeda.

"The Asiatic lion used to occur in Arabia, Palestine, Mesopotamia and Baluchistan. In South Caucasia it and became extinct in the 10th century. Until the middle of the 19th century, it survived in regions adjoining Mesopotamia and Syria and was still sighted in the upper reaches of the Euphrates River in the early 1870s. By the late 19th century, the Asiatic lion had become extinct in Turkey. The last known lion in Iraq was killed on the lower Tigris in 1918.

Historical records in Iran indicate that it ranged from the Khuzestan Plain to the Fars Province at elevations below 2,000 m (6,600 ft) in steppe vegetation and pistachio-almond woodlands. It was widespread in the country, but in the 1870s, it was sighted only on the western slopes of the Zagros Mountains, and in the forest regions south of Shiraz. Some of the country's last lions were sighted in 1941 between Shiraz and Jahrom in the Fars Province, and in 1942, a lion was spotted about 65 km (40 mi) northwest of Dezful. In 1944, the corpse of a lioness was found on the banks of the Karun River in Iran's Khuzestan Province.

In the early 19th century, the Asiatic lion occurred in Sind, Bahawalpur, Punjab, Gujarat, Rajastan, Haryana, Bihar and eastward as far as Palamau and Rewa, Madhya Pradesh. It once ranged to Bengal in the east and up to the Narmada River in the south, but declined under heavy hunting pressure." (Aup: In South India, lions were found as far as Burhanpur)"
Asiatic lion - Wikipedia

What surprises me is the mention of Yamuna in this verse. It was something happening in North Punjab, How could Yamuna help? :)
आवदिन्द्रं यमुना तर्त्सवश्च परात्र भेदं सर्वतातामुषायत l अजासश्च शिग्रवो यक्षवश्च बलिं शीर्षाणि जभ्रुरश्व्यानि ll
āvadindraṃ yamunā tṛtsavaśca prātra bhedaṃ sarvatātāmuṣāyat l ajāsaśca śighravo yakṣavaśca baliṃ śīrṣāṇi jabhruraśvyāni ll
Yamuna and the Trtsus aided Indra. There he stripped Bheda bare of all his treasures; the Ajas and the Sigrus and the Yaksus brought in to him as tribute heads of horses.
 
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Jul 2017
510
Sydney
"I don't think we have many options apart from India or Africa."

The mention of lion in this verse is no surprise. This is a hymn written after the coming of Aryans in India and after Sudasa of Trtsus had carved a kingdom for himself in the are where River Ravi emerges from the mountains. And lions existed in Punjab at that time. Thee can be no discussion on Aryans without discussing RigVeda.

"The Asiatic lion used to occur in Arabia, Palestine, Mesopotamia and Baluchistan. In South Caucasia it and became extinct in the 10th century. Until the middle of the 19th century, it survived in regions adjoining Mesopotamia and Syria and was still sighted in the upper reaches of the Euphrates River in the early 1870s. By the late 19th century, the Asiatic lion had become extinct in Turkey. The last known lion in Iraq was killed on the lower Tigris

What surprises me is the mention of Yamuna in this verse. It was something happening in North Punjab, How could Yamuna help? :)
आवदिन्द्रं यमुना तर्त्सवश्च परात्र भेदं सर्वतातामुषायत l अजासश्च शिग्रवो यक्षवश्च बलिं शीर्षाणि जभ्रुरश्व्यानि ll
āvadindraṃ yamunā tṛtsavaśca prātra bhedaṃ sarvatātāmuṣāyat l ajāsaśca śighravo yakṣavaśca baliṃ śīrṣāṇi jabhruraśvyāni ll
Yamuna and the Trtsus aided Indra. There he stripped Bheda bare of all his treasures; the Ajas and the Sigrus and the Yaksus brought in to him as tribute heads of horses.
Sudasa perhaps had a kingdom near the Yamuna and not in Punjab

I say this because Sudasa is usually associated with Kashi (Benares)

Many of his opponents do seem to be based near north Punjab or even north and west of Punjab but I never once thought Sudasa was based in Punjab

But it doesn't seem right to say this hymn was composed 'after Aryans came' and that's how Singham is mentioned. Because Singham seems to find a mention in many different hymns belonging to many different Mandalas. That way one could say the whole of Rigveda was composed after the Aryans came and it would make no sense at all, IMHO
 

Aatreya

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
3,441
USA
http://www.aa.tufs.ac.jp/~tjun/sktdic/cgi-bin/dic-srch.cgi?
word=araNyasearch `araNya' in `Apte Dic'
meanings of "araNya" [1]
n.(sometimes m. also){a-stem}
1.a land neither cultivated nor grazed;
2.a foreign or distant land
#06127

https://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/cgi-bin/tamil/recherche (Monier Williams)
1araNyan. (fr. 1. %{a4raNa} ; fr. %{R} Un2.) , a foreign or distant land RV. i , 163 , 11 and vi , 24 , 10 ; a wilderness , desert , forest AV. VS. &c. ; m. the tree also called Kat2phala L. ; N. of a son of the Manu Raivata Hariv. 434 ; of a Sa1dhya ib. 11536 ; of a teacher (disciple of Pr2ithvidhara).

Sanskrit Heritage Dictionary
अरण्य araṇya [araṇa-ya] n. bois, forêt; nature sauvage | lieu isolé, désert; cf. dharmāraṇya.
Dude, I gave you the etymology of the word and the context in which it was used. You still keep posting these?
 

Aatreya

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
3,441
USA
Sudasa perhaps had a kingdom near the Yamuna and not in Punjab

I say this because Sudasa is usually associated with Kashi (Benares)

Many of his opponents do seem to be based near north Punjab or even north and west of Punjab but I never once thought Sudasa was based in Punjab

But it doesn't seem right to say this hymn was composed 'after Aryans came' and that's how Singham is mentioned. Because Singham seems to find a mention in many different hymns belonging to many different Mandalas. That way one could say the whole of Rigveda was composed after the Aryans came and it would make no sense at all, IMHO
@Kadi,

There are two Sudas' that I know of - one from KAshi, and the other from North West of India. The second SudAs is SudAs Paijavana, the grandson of DivodAsa in the Puru lineage. The verse that you were discussing mentions that SudAs.

There is nothing like AryAs came or whatever notwithstanding what Aup keeps posting ever time. But Simha might be a word that was used for tiger as well because there is no exact description of the animal anywhere. Besides, tiger seems to be the favored animal in Harappan descriptions and was most probably a more common animal in that geography. It is also a possibility that the geography in Vedic times had lions in that region while they became rare later during Harappan times.
 
Likes: Kadi

Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,199
India
http://www.aa.tufs.ac.jp/~tjun/sktdic/cgi-bin/dic-srch.cgi?
word=araNyasearch `araNya' in `Apte Dic'
meanings of "araNya" [1]
n.(sometimes m. also){a-stem}
1.a land neither cultivated nor grazed;
2.a foreign or distant land
#06127

https://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/cgi-bin/tamil/recherche (Monier Williams)
1araNyan. (fr. 1. %{a4raNa} ; fr. %{R} Un2.) , a foreign or distant land RV. i , 163 , 11 and vi , 24 , 10 ; a wilderness , desert , forest AV. VS. &c. ; m. the tree also called Kat2phala L. ; N. of a son of the Manu Raivata Hariv. 434 ; of a Sa1dhya ib. 11536 ; of a teacher (disciple of Pr2ithvidhara).

Sanskrit Heritage Dictionary
अरण्य araṇya [araṇa-ya] n. bois, forêt; nature sauvage | lieu isolé, désert; cf. dharmāraṇya.
This is how one can change the meaning of Sanskrit words on their whim and fancy and prove Sapta Sindhu was in Siberia and hence Aryan invasion is proved.
 
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Likes: Kadi