since when Indo-Aryans started to burning their Dead instead of burying ?

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
4,849
New Delhi, India
Sudasa perhaps had a kingdom near the Yamuna and not in Punjab. I say this because Sudasa is usually associated with Kashi (Benares)

But it doesn't seem right to say this hymn was composed 'after Aryans came' and that's how Singham is mentioned. Because Singham seems to find a mention in many different hymns belonging to many different Mandalas. That way one could say the whole of Rigveda was composed after the Aryans came and it would make no sense at all, IMHO
Kadi, you need a thorough study of RigVeda. Do you think Sudasa's kingdom extended from beyong the shores of Ravi (Parushni) to Varanasi/Kashi? He had a small army, smaller than his opponents, who were perhaps around 6,000 (therefore the note of even "21 men of both Vaikarna tribes" (7.18.11) without a king - Battle of the Ten Kings - Wikipedia). Aryans could not have raised an army of 'akshauhini' type. If it was a large army, these 21 men would have found no mention. It was the flood in Ravi which saved Sudasa. Of course, all credit to Indra who sent in the flood. Perhaps at that time Aryans had not ventured beyond Saraswati region.

After coming to Afghanistan and India, Aryans knew of lions, and is reflected in the hymns. Please note that Rigvedic hymns are not chronological and were codified at later stage. So there is a mix-up of oldest, old and new hymns in every mandala of RigVeda.
 

Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
3,968
India
Sudasa perhaps had a kingdom near the Yamuna and not in Punjab

I say this because Sudasa is usually associated with Kashi (Benares)

Many of his opponents do seem to be based near north Punjab or even north and west of Punjab but I never once thought Sudasa was based in Punjab

But it doesn't seem right to say this hymn was composed 'after Aryans came' and that's how Singham is mentioned. Because Singham seems to find a mention in many different hymns belonging to many different Mandalas. That way one could say the whole of Rigveda was composed after the Aryans came and it would make no sense at all, IMHO
I have read many Vedic Hymns, the kind of Sanskrit shows the evolutionary pattern of the language. Some verses resembles closer to Paninian Sanskrit while other verses are very archaic and sound s lot different from Paninian Sanskrit. Colonial era historians who claim Rigveda was written between 1500BC-1200BC simply created a theory without any basis for it.
 
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Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
4,849
New Delhi, India
This is how one can change the meaning of Sanskrit words on their whim and fancy and prove Sapta Sindhu was in Sibera and hence Aryan invasion is proved.
Who said that? Did I ever say that? You think all the scholars, including Prof. Apte, whose dictionary is standard for Sanskrit are writing untruth? Of course, RigVedic hymns are very old. Tilak gives some of them a date before 4,000 BCE, I do not deny that.
 

Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
3,968
India
Who said that? Did I ever say that? You think all the scholars, including Prof. Apte, whose dictionary is standard for Sanskrit are writing untruth? Of course, RigVedic hymns are very old. Tilak gives some of them a date before 4,000 BCE, I do not deny that.
Many colonial theories are based on people interpreting Sanskrit text without setting foot on Indian soil and knowing Sanskrit properly.
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
4,849
New Delhi, India
Dude, I gave you the etymology of the word and the context in which it was used. You still keep posting these?
And on your part, you deny the scholarship of all people, Indians and non-Indians except your own self. This is tiring, Aatreya.
Many colonial theories are based on people interpreting Sanskrit text without setting foot on Indian soil and knowing Sanskrit properly.
Dont be surprised by that. Are not students of Indian universities learning foreign languages here? Indian students learn English, it is their medium of instruction, and many people become proficient in the use of that language. They even converse with each other in English. And my grandsons used to ask me 'Dada, what is the meaning of 'Navasi' or 'Unhattar'?'

Keep throwing your darts at me. I can answer them all.
 
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Aatreya

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
3,270
USA
Kadi, you need a thorough study of RigVeda. Do you think Sudasa's kingdom extended from beyong the shores of Ravi (Parushni) to Varanasi/Kashi? He had a small army, smaller than his opponents, who were perhaps around 6,000 (therefore the note of even "21 men of both Vaikarna tribes" (7.18.11) without a king - Battle of the Ten Kings - Wikipedia). Aryans could not have raised an army of 'akshauhini' type. If it was a large army, these 21 men would have found no mention. It was the flood in Ravi which saved Sudasa. Of course, all credit to Indra who sent in the flood. Perhaps at that time Aryans had not ventured beyond Saraswati region.

After coming to Afghanistan and India, Aryans knew of lions, and is reflected in the hymns. Please note that Rigvedic hymns are not chronological and were codified at later stage. So there is a mix-up of oldest, old and new hymns in every mandala of RigVeda.
Ganga and Yamuna were known rivers, and Vasishta's hymns mention Yamuna. You should study Rig Veda first.
 
Likes: Kadi

Aatreya

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
3,270
USA
And on your part, you deny the scholarship of all people, Indians and non-Indians except your own self. This is tiring, Aatreya.Dont be surprised by that. Are not students of Indian universities learning foreign languages here? Indian students learn English, it is their medium of instruction, and many people become proficient in the use of that language. They even converse with each other in English. And my grandsons used to ask me 'Dada, what is the meaning of 'Navasi' or 'Unhattar'?'

Keep throwing your darts at me. I can answer them all.
I didn't deny YAska, I didn't deny PANini and I didn't deny SAyaNa. How dare I? I only denied Mueller, Griffith, Tilak to name a few.
 
Likes: Kadi
Jul 2017
398
Sydney
Kadi, you need a thorough study of RigVeda. Do you think Sudasa's kingdom extended from beyong the shores of Ravi (Parushni) to Varanasi/Kashi?

After coming to Afghanistan and India, Aryans knew of lions, and is reflected in the hymns. Please note that Rigvedic hymns are not chronological and were codified at later stage. So there is a mix-up of oldest, old and new hymns in every mandala of RigVeda.
The last bit you've said is very convenient for your point of view but it's far from the truth. By saying in one sentence that there is a mix of old and new hymns in all Mandalas, you've basically given yourself room to reject all evidence related to flora and fauna from the RV

Because anytime I come up with more verses to show subcontinental trees or animals, you'll again say this is a recent hymn

But sadly for your school of thought, science or peer reviewed work doesn't operate on such principles
 
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Jul 2017
398
Sydney
Kadi, you need a thorough study of RigVeda. Do you think Sudasa's kingdom extended from beyong the shores of Ravi (Parushni) to Varanasi/Kashi? He had a small army, smaller than his opponents, who were perhaps around 6,000 (therefore the note of even "21 men of both Vaikarna tribes" (7.18.11) without a king - Battle of the Ten Kings - Wikipedia). Aryans could not have raised an army of 'akshauhini' type. If it was a large army, these 21 men would have found no mention. It was the flood in Ravi which saved Sudasa. Of course, all credit to Indra who sent in the flood. Perhaps at that time Aryans had not ventured beyond Saraswati
I've consulted Pargiter on this and I stand by my conclusion that the Bharatas (led by Sudasa) were in Panchala, east of the Yamuna, before the battle of ten kings

That's how we see Yamuna in that verse

It was only after the Dasrajna war that Bharatas could shift into Haryana (Kuru-jangal or DharmAranya and the rest of Kurukshetra). It was a result of this move that a branch of the Bharatas came to be known as Kuru later

Refer to page 100
Ancient Indian Historical Tradition
By F.E. Pargiter

I'm able to see now why @Aupmanyav would always push for a more western location of Sudasa's capital. Because as soon as we start recognizing Dasrajna war as a fight between two indigenous factions, east of Yamuna AryAs versus the west of Yamuna AryAs, the AMT fizzles out
 
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