since when Indo-Aryans started to burning their Dead instead of burying ?

Jul 2017
510
Sydney
Cremation is quite an ancient practice. There is evidence from Australia and Sri Lanka of cremation being practiced 42,000 years before present

At least one of them had a date in that range

Cremation - Wikipedia

Coming to the Indus valley, Mackay believes cremation was the predominant practice. Here is the reference (page 166)

The Indus Civilization
 
Last edited:

Aatreya

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
3,579
USA
The Vedas as we know talk only of the Sapta SIndhu area so where does central asia come into the picture? Indus sites have both burial and cremation sites.
This is how his argument works: First consider a premise that Aryans came from Central Asia in 1500 BCE. Then explain away everything saying that the Aryans only came into India in 1500 BCE. Notice how the premise already became an evidence later. This is how AMT has flourished.

On the other hand, the OIT camp does not start with a premise that AryAs moved out of India in XXXX BCE. It starts with known evidences such as the timeline of drying of Saraswati, the linguistic comparison of Vedic, Mitanni and Avestan, etc.. Then we would assess the possible date of Aryan migration from India.

No amount of reasoning works with these folks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hansolo

Aatreya

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
3,579
USA
The Norse and early Greeks also burnt their dead and a female accompanier like the Vedic Indians did. Cremation among the Norse was a warrior's way out.
Where is the evidence that Vedic Indians burned the female accompanier with the dead? There are hymns in Rig Veda that ask the female to not do so (which may have been some kind of voluntary practice).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kadi
Jul 2017
510
Sydney
Where is the evidence that Vedic Indians burned the female accompanier with the dead? There are hymns in Rig Veda that ask the female to not do so (which may have been some kind of voluntary practice).
It was absolutely voluntary and quite often it was the choice of female warriors whose consorts didn't make it out of battle alive
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,797
New Delhi, India
The Norse and early Greeks also burnt their dead and a female accompanier like the Vedic Indians did.
In Vedic times, a widow sitting on the funeral pyre of her deceased husband was only a symbolic gesture, the woman was not required to immolate herself. This is evident both in RigVeda X.18.8 and AtharvaVeda 18.3.2, the verse is common to both hymns.

"Choosing her husband's world, O man, this woman lays herself down beside thy lifeless body; preserving faithfully the ancient custom, bestow upon here both wealth and offspring." AV 18.3.1
How could wealth and offspring be bestowed on her if she did not live beyond the funeral? This is made clear in the very next verse.
"Rise, come unto the world of life, O woman, come, he is lifeless by whose side you lie; wifehood with this your husband was your portion, who took your hand and wooed you as a lover." RV X.18.8 & AV 18.3.2

Nice hymns for the occasion. AthrvaVeda hymn is more elaborate. I do not know if brahmins recite this during the death rituals, we leave their mumblings to them. But if anyone is interested in reading them, I give the links: Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN XVIII. Various Deities. and Atharva Veda: Book 18: Hymn 3: A funeral hymn, taken partly from the Rigveda (Translations by Ralph Griffith)
 
Last edited:
Sep 2014
962
Texas
In Vedic times, a widow sitting on the funeral pyre of her deceased husband was only a symbolic gesture, the woman was not required to immolate herself. This is evident both in RigVeda X.18.8 and AtharvaVeda 18.3.2, the verse is common to both hymns.

"Choosing her husband's world, O man, this woman lays herself down beside thy lifeless body; preserving faithfully the ancient custom, bestow upon here both wealth and offspring." AV 18.3.1
How could wealth and offspring be bestowed on her if she did not live beyond the funeral? This is made clear in the very next verse.
"Rise, come unto the world of life, O woman, come, he is lifeless by whose side you lie; wifehood with this your husband was your portion, who took your hand and wooed you as a lover." RV X.18.8 & AV 18.3.2

Nice hymns for the occasion. AthrvaVeda hymn is more elaborate. I do not know if brahmins recite this during the death rituals, we leave their mumblings to them. But if anyone is interested in reading them, I give the links: Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN XVIII. Various Deities. and Atharva Veda: Book 18: Hymn 3: A funeral hymn, taken partly from the Rigveda (Translations by Ralph Griffith)
That's really great. According to myth the first Greek woman who refused to die on her husbnad's funeral pyre was Spartan. Without sounding too cynical I think politics and inheritance was behind some of these events.
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,797
New Delhi, India
It was definitely so in Bengal where most Sati cases took place in the upper echelons of society, i.e., tax agents appointed by East India Company - Zamindari system. These people became very rich and all strategies were used to corner inheritance.
 

Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,981
India
I know ... thats why I wrote " If you DID mean the Aryans in Central Asia then they practiced BOTH burial and cremation . "

Although by using the term 'Indo Aryan' confuses things a little - so i assume it means after the Ayans came into India and / or after the 'Indo-Iranian split' . I am assuming the practice of both forms came into India with them. As far as it being abandoned in later period perhaps post 2 has some hints ?

I find the why issue more interesting than the 'when' . Perhaps there was some religious reason ?

Another interesting point ( considering the ' Indo-Iranian Aryans' ) how and why ( and may as well pose , when) did the Iranian funeral practice become so different.

We seem to have more on record (as far as I know) regarding the dynamics in Iran ;

" However, according to the researchers, even in Zoroastrian texts, there are indications that a significant number of people opposed the change in funeral practices, which resulted in penalties ... "

Sky Burial; Ancient Tradition of Iran’s Zoroastrians
Vedas were written in Sapta Sindhu(land of the 7 rivers) that comprises North-West India, Eastern Pakistan and parts of Eastern Afghanistan. There is no central Asian memory in Vedas, there is no mention of any region beyond Gandhara. Although Iranic tribes have always inhabited Eastern Iran, Afghanistan and Central Asia and they even knew about Sapta Sindhu as Hapta Hindu.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hansolo