since when Indo-Aryans started to burning their Dead instead of burying ?

Aatreya

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
3,445
USA
I do not think that is necessary. They could have been riding Przewalski's horse. They would have ridden whatever was available and herded whatever was available, not necessarily Bos indicus. To Kadi, I was answering a question in biology.
How many rib bone pairs does a modern horse or a Przewalski's horse have?
 

Aatreya

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
3,445
USA
Well, there are literally thousands of Kurgans (burial mounds) right from Netherlands to Altay mountains.

"The earliest known kurgans are dated to the 4th millennium BC in the Caucasus. Kurgan barrows were characteristic of Bronze Age peoples, and have been found from the Altay Mountains to the Caucasus, Russia, Ukraine, Romania, and Bulgaris. Kurgans were used in the Ukrainian and Russian steppes, their use spreading with migration into eastern, central, and northern Europe in the 3rd millennium BC." (Kurgan - Wikipedia)They were modern horses (64 chromosomes). Przewalsky horse (66 chromosomes) is not a domesticated horse, though they can interbreed with the domestic horse and produce fertile offspring (65 chromosomes).

The earliest archaeological evidence for the domestication of the horse comes from sites in Ukraine and Kazakhstan, dating to approximately 3500–4000 BC. By 3000 BC, the horse was completely domesticated and by 2000 BC there was a sharp increase in the number of horse bones found in human settlements in northwestern Europe, indicating the spread of domesticated horses throughout the continent. The most recent, but most irrefutable evidence of domestication comes from sites where horse remains were interred with chariots in graves of the Sintashta and Petrovka cultures c. 2100 BC. Why don't you people use Wikipedia, it is such a nice repository of information.

Well, there is not much information on IVC and Bhirrana horse. ;)
Well sure, you keep reading Wikipedia while others read research papers.

Kurgan hypothesis is a noise about burial mounds that have nothing to do with the burials in India. This noise was created by people who had very scant (if any) knowledge of such processes in India.

What @Kadi is saying is not about the Kurgans themselves, but of the horse that was used as an evidence for the imaginary migration.
 

Aatreya

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
3,445
USA
Even if the horse was there in IVC and Gujarat, it does not deny migration of Aryans to India.There is archaeological proof of that starting from 7,000 BCE from Volga delta to Sintashta, Aral and BMAC in succession. That, and the presence of IE mythology and language proves a migration, at times invasion.. After all, Sudasa had established a Aryan kingdom. Yes, zoologists say horse was domisticated by various people.
Oh, the horses started migrating from 7000 BCE? Yes, Sudasa had established an Aryan Kingdom, one of the many that probably lasted for millennia starting from 7000 BCE in India.
 

Aatreya

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
3,445
USA
A) 'Local' is a temporary phenomenon. I am local to Delhi, have been here since 1971; but I am from Rajasthan. Before that my family was from Kashmir. And before that perhaps from Uttarapatha where Lord Krishna met my progenitor, Sage Upamanyu. That is mentioned in Srimad Bhagawat Purana. I do not know where my son would end up. He refused a migration to New Zealand.
B) They did not need a quick mobilization. They were not a horde or an army. They were migrants, came in trickles over hundreds of years, family by family, group by group.
C) Perhaps they came on foot, all their belongings strapped on their backs or on a horse or a mule, crossing Suleiman mountains (Khyber pass or any other).

No, their horses were galloping at a rapid speed towards India. Actually legend has it that they took a detour of Suleiman mountains.
 
Likes: Kadi
Oct 2018
57
Bangalore,India
BMAC only has interaction with the Indo-Iranians/Aryans and they are not entirely Indo-Aryan or Indo-Iranian. Well,though Genetics discussion is frowned upon here,I would like to just use it to talk about the BMAC since there is no much other markers. BMAC is in a region south of Andronavo. It is a strategic region where South Asia first begins. They were non Indo-European and that's clear. They have genetic source from a wide range of region starting from North/East Africa to Asia. They were ethnically diverse like the IVC from what it seems. Andronavo culture first began interacting with them before absorbing them in giving rise to the Iranian and Indo-Aryan peoples as they are characteristic today. The appearence of Indo-Iranians before this is said to be mostly Northern European with 60+% having Blue eyes and Blonde Hair. The Scythians were a mix of other people in the Pontic Steppe and the Caucasus with the Indo Iranians probably and hence were very close to modern Europeans. Iranians,Pashtuns,Tajiks,many Indians don't look too different.
Tocharians were an another Indo-European branch older than Indo-Iranian probably and a Centum speaking people like Celtic,Italic,Anatolian,Hellenic and Germanic people. They went into the Tarim Basin from a path east of Andronavo.
 
Jul 2017
510
Sydney
BMAC only has interaction with the Indo-Iranians/Aryans and they are not entirely Indo-Aryan or Indo-Iranian. Well,though Genetics discussion is frowned upon here,I would like to just use it to talk about the BMAC since there is no much other markers. BMAC is in a region south of Andronavo. It is a strategic region where South Asia first begins. They were non Indo-European and that's clear. They have genetic source from a wide range of region starting from North/East Africa to Asia. They were ethnically diverse like the IVC from what it seems. Andronavo culture first began interacting with them before absorbing them in giving rise to the Iranian and Indo-Aryan peoples as they are characteristic today. The appearence of Indo-Iranians before this is said to be mostly Northern European with 60+% having Blue eyes and Blonde Hair. The Scythians were a mix of other people in the Pontic Steppe and the Caucasus with the Indo Iranians probably and hence were very close to modern Europeans. Iranians,Pashtuns,Tajiks,many Indians don't look too different.
Tocharians were an another Indo-European branch older than Indo-Iranian probably and a Centum speaking people like Celtic,Italic,Anatolian,Hellenic and Germanic people. They went into the Tarim Basin from a path east of Andronavo.
The 60% plus blue eyes and blonde phenotype is Northern European by origin?

I think I've brought up Keith Cheng et al several times to show that these features first developed in the India and Iran geographical area

Cheng and his team (2014) did a deep dive into SLC24A5, the fair skin pigmentation allele

His paper became quite famous and there are blogs such as (Did People With Lighter Skin Color And Blue Eyes Originate From India Or Middle East? | MessageToEagle.com) saying an Irish ancestor responsible for so many Irish having these features lived either in India or the middle east 6k to 10k years ago

Now, I just don't know why some of us still would like to keep referring to outdated models

We need to listen to Kenneth Kennedy, who was the best student of the Indian skeletal record till date

After careful examination of subcontinent wide ancient skeletons, he clearly ruled out introgression of these blonde and blue eyed people from anywhere abroad

In his opinion, this entire idea of northern Europeans or germans being responsible for the spread of such a phenotype was born out of the incorrect marriage of some distorted translations of Vedic hymns (Mueller) and German nationalism of the 19th century
 
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Oct 2018
57
Bangalore,India
The 60% plus blue eyes and blonde phenotype is Northern European by origin?

I think I've brought up Keith Cheng et al several times to show that these features first developed in the India and Iran geographical area

Cheng and his team (2014) did a deep dive into SLC24A5, the fair skin pigmentation allele

His paper became quite famous and there are blogs such as (Did People With Lighter Skin Color And Blue Eyes Originate From India Or Middle East? | MessageToEagle.com) saying an Irish ancestor responsible for so many Irish having these features lived either in India or the middle east 6k to 10k years ago

Now, I just don't know why some of us want to keep referring to outdated models
You totally keep getting confused. I mentioned about TODAY'S Northern Europeans in the post. Also those features are proved to have originated in the Black sea region and could have evolved in different populations independently also(we don't know this yet). Those features evolve in Low light conditions and it's impossible in India. Please don't continuously post pseudoscience or Religion inside a covering labelled Science. I don't know what extent people want to go to to have their preferred narrative true. I will not reply further. Please go through yourself. There are plenty of articles.
 
Jul 2017
510
Sydney
You totally keep getting confused. I mentioned about TODAY'S Northern Europeans in the post. Also those features are proved to have originated in the Black sea region and could have evolved in different populations independently also(we don't know this yet). Those features evolve in Low light conditions and it's impossible in India. Please don't continuously post pseudoscience or Religion inside a covering labelled Science. I don't know what extent people want to go to to have their preferred narrative true. I will not reply further. Please go through yourself. There are plenty of articles.

I don't at all believe in mixing religion with either science or economics

I've posted some references below for your kind perusal if you're not angry with me. You would know after reading these scientific reports that north India has a hotspot of this phenotype, which has an older age (calculated through the corresponding allele's mutation rate and diversity) than it has in Europe

Another thing to note is that these projects have researchers participating from highly respected institutions such as Cambridge and Pennsylvania State University. If we label research coming out of Cambridge and Pennsylvania State University pseudo-science, I've no idea what would pass as real science

References:
Gene Mutation Links Asian & European Ancestors by Cheng et al
The Light Skin Allele of SLC24A5 in South Asians and Europeans Shares Identity by Descent by Chandana Basu Mallick et al
 
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Likes: Ajathashatru