Slavery: Why wasn't the Mexicans and Central Americans not involved?

Feb 2012
3,781
Portugal
#21
It seems Jamestown was burned in the 17th century in the middle of a conflict between settlers and Natives in which slaves and indentured servants took a central role. According to that article and this there was a kinship between indentured Europeans and African slaves resulting also in marriage between the two groups. Which shows two things that often go omiss in these discussions, the fact that in practical terms Europeans were also enslaved, and that maybe the biggest gap was social status and not race.

 
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robto

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,805
Lisbon, Portugal
#22
Which shows two things that often go omiss in these discussions, the fact that in practical terms Europeans were also enslaved, and that maybe the biggest gap was social status and not race.
It was only like that in the beginning of colonial America.
 
Jul 2017
148
USA
#23
From what I know, the Indians said that they would not work the land, the Europeans that was still in Europe said they would not send prisoners to work the land as well. Why not go for the Hispanics that was closer to America v
That's the answer right there. The Natives were the natives. They were a nation on their own soil, they knew the land, the people, the language, it was theirs, and they had their way of life about it. They were not disenfranchised.
Africans were completely disenfranchised. Removed from their land and tribes, by continents and oceans. Imagine if Martians came down here. They could imprison you into forced labor, bur you'd be more apt to rebel being on your land among your people. But if they took you to Mars, you'd be damned for a long time, until your kind multiplied enough.

That's why colonizers kill off the natives, and not just in Americas, but in Africa, in Europe, everywhere. In Europe, there was a lot of bloodshed for territory. But businessmen, they import slaves, the best suited for the task, from the farthest corners of the universe, at the lowest price they can find.
 
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robto

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,805
Lisbon, Portugal
#25
Which of those things?
That Europeans were enslaved, that there was a "marriage" between European indentured servants and African slaves, and that the real gap was social status and not race. By the 18th century in colonial America, race was the most important and defining factor of social relations in the thirteen colonies, specially in the south.
 
Feb 2012
3,781
Portugal
#26
That Europeans were enslaved, that there was a "marriage" between European indentured servants and African slaves, and that the real gap was social status and not race. By the 18th century in colonial America, race was the most important and defining factor of social relations in the thirteen colonies, specially in the south.
Actualy it seems indenture servitude of Europeans was extinguished throughout the 19th century in the US. You had people with similar contrats being lured from Azores to Brasil in the middle of the 19th century.
About the rest to be honest these issues are so complex, after making the above statement remembered the case of Dona Marina who was a slave and had a son with Cortes and was usualy portrayed near him, she was credited as essential in the conquest of Mexico, and then there is Alexandre Dumas who was both of noble and African slave ancestry. And one of his mistresses was an American actress also of Afro American ancestry.
 
Jun 2015
5,487
UK
#27
I'm no expert on Middle America, but as far as Jamestown goes, I seem to recall that many of the primary sources also cited a much more prideful culture among the natives that made it especially demoralizing for them to work as slaves. If I recall correctly, they often preferred death of one form or another, than working as slaves for the Europeans. The American Indians lived "savagely" but their pride seems to have been very sensitive and easily pricked.

That may not have been the main reason why natives didn't continue on as slaves, I don't know, but it certainly was a factor on some level, perhaps even a decisive one.
In the Caribbean islands, they were often overworked. It was this that led to the use of Africans.
 
Jun 2015
5,487
UK
#28
It seems Jamestown was burned in the 17th century in the middle of a conflict between settlers and Natives in which slaves and indentured servants took a central role. According to that article and this there was a kinship between indentured Europeans and African slaves resulting also in marriage between the two groups. Which shows two things that often go omiss in these discussions, the fact that in practical terms Europeans were also enslaved, and that maybe the biggest gap was social status and not race.

Well this was at the very beginning of European colonisation.

However, from the c. 1620 to 1660, there was a major shift in how slavery developed. Once King Charles I founded colonies, and were expanded by the Cromwellian Commonwealth, slavery became more defined as an institution. King Charles II founded the Royal African Company which traded in slaves, and the acquisition of Jamaica, Barbados and Guyana led to more need for slaves.
 
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Feb 2012
3,781
Portugal
#29
Actualy it seems indenture servitude of Europeans was extinguished throughout the 19th century in the US. You had people with similar contrats being lured from Azores to Brasil in the middle of the 19th century.
About the rest to be honest these issues are so complex, after making the above statement remembered the case of Dona Marina who was a slave and had a son with Cortes and was usualy portrayed near him, she was credited as essential in the conquest of Mexico, and then there is Alexandre Dumas who was both of noble and African slave ancestry. And one of his mistresses was an American actress also of Afro American ancestry.
Adding to this Dona Marina was given as a slave to the Spaniards but she was also of aristocratic birth and of course none of the examples contradicts that the greatest gap might have been in social status it only shows nothing is absolute.
 

robto

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,805
Lisbon, Portugal
#30
Ok, but in my previous post, I was specifically referring to the thirteen colonies of North America. In Latin America, racial hierarchy was more complex and nuanced, but still, race was the most important factor in how society was organized. Now let me respond to every single point you made:

Actualy it seems indenture servitude of Europeans was extinguished throughout the 19th century in the US. You had people with similar contrats being lured from Azores to Brasil in the middle of the 19th century.
Indentured servitude is not the same thing as chattel slavery. Indentured servitude is temporary, and more importantly, it's not hereditary. An Indentured servant could buy his own freedom somewhere in life, could climb the social ladder and his children would not inherit the status of slave.
That's fundamentally different than being a black slave in the plantations of the Americas - totally different institutions, and by the 18th century European indentured servants in the Americas were very few when compared to the millions of black slaves that worked in the fields.

About the rest to be honest these issues are so complex, after making the above statement remembered the case of Dona Marina who was a slave and had a son with Cortes and was usualy portrayed near him, she was credited as essential in the conquest of Mexico,
I already explained to you on the mixed-marriage practice and what it symbolized in colonial America in another thread.
Dona Marina and Cortes were the first colonial generation. I already explained in other posts that in the first generations of colonialism, institutions such as plantation slavery, racial segregation and racial hierarchy were still not implemented and didn't existed most of the time.

and then there is Alexandre Dumas who was both of noble and African slave ancestry. And one of his mistresses was an American actress also of Afro American ancestry.
Alexandre Dumas is a 19th century French native. He was born and bred in France. I'm talking about society in colonial and post-colonial Americas. Continental France didn't had the same kind of views on race as Americans (I mean the people from the continent) had.
 

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