So many Italian Explorers and ?

Naima

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
2,323
Venice
#1
And no Italian state was interested in the new world?
Other nations have often used Italian explorers to uncover the new World from Columbus to Cabot, but why Italian states, that were still very rich at the Renaissence time were not interested in the new world?
 
Mar 2012
1,171
Magdeburg
#2
Probably they were less interested as wealthy italian city states like Venice and Genoa already had trade holdings and colonies across mediterranean and adriatic seas thus less interest in funding new expeditions. Spanish and portuguese didn't have this luxury.
 

Shtajerc

Ad Honorem
Jul 2014
6,697
Lower Styria, Slovenia
#3
They were getting their share from the trade with spices and other goods from the East while Spain and Portugal didn't and sought to go directly to the source instead of buying from Italian merchants. Those probably didn't think it's worth to risk money for some ventures into the unknown when you already sell the sought after goods to everyone else.
 

Frank81

Ad Honorem
Feb 2010
5,049
Canary Islands-Spain
#4
They had no rights to do it, since Portugal and Spain controled the Strait and claimed legitimacy to Atlantic areas since early 15th century.

The very first attempts to explore the Atlantic actually came from Italians (Vivaldi brothers, Lancelotto Malocello), but they did so in a private way (although the Genoese flag is showed in Lanzarote island in portulans of mid 14th century). I'd say also they weren't fully ready in terms of crews and ships for Atlantic sailing, since Italians usually relied on Iberians to this job. But I'd be wrong, Columbus for example arrived to Portugal after shipwreacking during a battle between a Genoese and a corsarir in front of Portugal.

In short, the answer is probably more political and technical.
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,536
Portugal
#5
And no Italian state was interested in the new world?
Other nations have often used Italian explorers to uncover the new World from Columbus to Cabot, but why Italian states, that were still very rich at the Renaissence time were not interested in the new world?
Those two are just probably the two best known (assuming that Columbus is Italian) but we could had more, as for instance Cadamosto.

The Italians had contact with the East via Egypt, so they didn’t had to search for the origins of the spice trade. It is important to note that Portugal was a strong competitor of the Venetian spice trade to the point of the Venetians helped the Muslims building ships for the Indian Ocean to face the Portuguese.

Even so the “Italians” attempted to establish in the Atlantic, in the Canary islands, I mentioned this recently in other thread.

Probably they were less interested as wealthy italian city states like Venice and Genoa already had trade holdings and colonies across mediterranean and adriatic seas thus less interest in funding new expeditions. Spanish and portuguese didn't have this luxury.
Depend what you mean by “Spanish”.

Aragon had a Mediterranean “empire” just like Venice and Genova and Barcelona was a trade city just those two.

They were getting their share from the trade with spices and other goods from the East while Spain and Portugal didn't and sought to go directly to the source instead of buying from Italian merchants. Those probably didn't think it's worth to risk money for some ventures into the unknown when you already sell the sought after goods to everyone else.
Exacly.

EDIT:

They had no rights to do it, since Portugal and Spain controled the Strait and claimed legitimacy to Atlantic areas since early 15th century.

The very first attempts to explore the Atlantic actually came from Italians (Vivaldi brothers, Lancelotto Malocello), but they did so in a private way (although the Genoese flag is showed in Lanzarote island in portulans of mid 14th century). I'd say also they weren't fully ready in terms of crews and ships for Atlantic sailing, since Italians usually relied on Iberians to this job. But I'd be wrong, Columbus for example arrived to Portugal after shipwreacking during a battle between a Genoese and a corsarir in front of Portugal.

In short, the answer is probably more political and technical.
Nicely noted. Forgot the political part.

The arrival of Columbus to Portugal is an interesting story. There is the hypothesis that he was in the attacking ship not in the attacked one.
 
Last edited:

Frank81

Ad Honorem
Feb 2010
5,049
Canary Islands-Spain
#6
Nicely noted. Forgot the political part.

The arrival of Columbus to Portugal is an interesting story. There is the hypothesis that he was in the attacking ship not in the attacked one.
Tulius, I never saw the issue from that point of view.

I've researched and your doubt is well founded. Fernando Colon described a furious battle in which his father served with "Colón el mozo" = Coulon, a French corsair-aldmiral against with a Genoese fleet against some Venetians ships.

However, the only battle to happen between Venetians (galleys) and Genoese in the area of Lagos-Algarve took place in 1485, and was a encounter with no fighting at all.

The other battle was that of August 1476, between a Genoese convoy of three carracks and Flemish urca, against the fleet of the corsair Coulon. It took place in front of Lagos, and saw a terrible fightint that resulted in the total destruction of the Genoese fleet and serious casualties for the attackers.

This means Columbus actually fought beside his corsair aldmiral against the Genoese convoy (...in the context of the Portugal-Castillian war?)

Very interesting
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,468
Spain
#7
To say Colón, Colomb, Colombo, Columbus, was an italian explorer it is is a non-demonstrable or verifiable assumption ... so we can´t talk about "assumption"... we can write about really italian explores as Frank 81 just did...we can add Giovanni Cabotto, Americo Vespucci etc etc but not Colón... Why to say he is italian and not Spanish, Portuguese...?
 

Shtajerc

Ad Honorem
Jul 2014
6,697
Lower Styria, Slovenia
#8
To say Colón, Colomb, Colombo, Columbus, was an italian explorer it is is a non-demonstrable or verifiable assumption ... so we can´t talk about "assumption"... we can write about really italian explores as Frank 81 just did...we can add Giovanni Cabotto, Americo Vespucci etc etc but not Colón... Why to say he is italian and not Spanish, Portuguese...?
Why isn't he Chinese?
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,468
Spain
#9
Why isn't he Chinese?
Because sources didn´t say he was the Chinese characterist...nobody wrote he was a "mongol" as it would have been written in 15th Century...
And of course... he was not From Castilla.. but he could be from other places in Spain as Catalonia, Majorca etc or from Portugal... Why do you know he was not from Spain or from Portugal?
Have you got evidences?
 

Shtajerc

Ad Honorem
Jul 2014
6,697
Lower Styria, Slovenia
#10
Because sources didn´t say he was the Chinese characterist...nobody wrote he was a "mongol" as it would have been written in 15th Century...
And of course... he was not From Castilla.. but he could be from other places in Spain as Catalonia, Majorca etc or from Portugal... Why do you know he was not from Spain or from Portugal?
Have you got evidences?
What are Chinese characteristics? Do sources say he had Spanish characteristics (what would they be in the first place?)? Why can't he be French or Swedish? Can you provide evidence he was born in any of those Spanish provinces or in Portugal?
 

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