So many Italian Explorers and ?

Jul 2017
16
Europe
#61
Sorry to say but Spain existed before Columbus, it existed since ancient times. The Romans mention it quite often.
C'mon, i mean unified Spain... by this logic Italy is older...

The first who used the title "King of Spain" was Charles V in 1516.
 
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Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,571
Portugal
#62
C'mon, i mean unified Spain... by this logic Italy is older...

The first who used the title "King of Spain" was Charles V in 1516.
“Spain” was only unified during the Roman and Visigoth domain and during the 1580-1640 period, since in its origin Spain was the same as Iberia (was the name that the Greeks gave to the Peninsula) and had the same meaning as the all Iberian Peninsula, as we understand it today. I don’t know if Italy in its physical geographical meaning is older or not. Later the term was resized to mean just the current Spain.

By the way the title “Imperator totius Hispaniae”/"Emperor of Spain" was already used by the kings of Leon in the 10th century, so Carlos I of “Spain” (meaning here the Crowns of Castile and Aragon) was only going back to the origins of one of his kingdoms.
 
Jan 2017
60
Italy, EU
#63
C'mon, i mean unified Spain... by this logic Italy is older...

The first who used the title "King of Spain" was Charles V in 1516.
Actually, it was Philip II ( 1556-1598). Charles V used sometimes the title "King of the Spains'' (Castille and Aragon) but he also wasn't Spanish and had many other titles (King of Germany, King of Italy, two sicilies, Lord of the Flanders and most importantly Germanic Emperor,) and spent most of his life in Brussels.

Philip II centralized, to some extent, Spain. He certainly did more than his father in that and placed all the royal councils in Madrid (where he moved from Brussels in 1561). Also, he was spanish and obtained control of al the Iberian peninsula. So King of Spain sounded correct. Philip II deserves more credit than he usually gets.
 
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martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,508
Spain
#64
C'mon, i mean unified Spain... by this logic Italy is older...

The first who used the title "King of Spain" was Charles V in 1516.
First, it was not Charles V but Charles I... he was king of Spain sooner than Emperor of Romans.

Second, the first king to use the title Emperor of Spain was Alfonso III El Magno in 9th Century (Adefonsus Hispaniae Imperator) from year 877 and sooner than him.. the Goths kings were named Kings of Spain.
 
Feb 2016
4,358
Japan
#65
Italian states have to sail past Spain to get there, once discovered geographic practicalities meant Britain, Spain and Portugal would be the major colonists... they have the shortest most direct routes, Spain can shut down any Italian competition... so why bother?
 
Feb 2016
4,358
Japan
#66
And add to what others have said... Italian states had lots of good business concerns over the med and into Asia. Why lose money heading west, when your doing well enough in the east.
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,508
Spain
#67
Italian states have to sail past Spain to get there, once discovered geographic practicalities meant Britain, Spain and Portugal would be the major colonists... they have the shortest most direct routes, Spain can shut down any Italian competition... so why bother?
I agree. And Sincerely... What Italian state would have defeated Spain, Portugal, Netherland or Britain in a naval war?
 
Jul 2017
16
Europe
#68
First, it was not Charles V but Charles I... he was king of Spain sooner than Emperor of Romans.

Second, the first king to use the title Emperor of Spain was Alfonso III El Magno in 9th Century (Adefonsus Hispaniae Imperator) from year 877 and sooner than him.. the Goths kings were named Kings of Spain.
Modern Spain starts with Charles. Even Ostrogoths and Lombards used the title of King of Italy. Odoacer was Dux Italiae since the fall of the Western Roman Empire but if you dare to say that Italy was a nation people will (most likely) get butthurt.

Italian states have to sail past Spain to get there, once discovered geographic practicalities meant Britain, Spain and Portugal would be the major colonists... they have the shortest most direct routes, Spain can shut down any Italian competition... so why bother?
Don't forget that the Republic of Genoa controlled Spanish banks.

 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,571
Portugal
#69
Modern Spain starts with Charles.
Curiously most of the historian that I have read consider that Modern “Spain” starts with the Catholic kings. But we are talking about quite close timelines. It s not a major issue.

Don't forget that the Republic of Genoa controlled Spanish banks.
I didn’t knew that. Can you source it?
 
Likes: martin76
Feb 2018
172
EU-Germany
#70
there was a story of how charlesV pledged venezuela(klein-venedig/little-venice) to a german patrician family(welser/augsburg) and it ended in total failure, so maybe establishing and maintaining a colony in the new world wasnt as desirable as it seems in retrospect, meaning the venetians were still capable of calculating their own limits

fact is also that neither genoa nor venice even showed any great interest in establishing in the new world, apart from the pope blocking such undertakings; infact genoa no longer had such capabilities/capacities and vencie was well busy with the colonies that it did have(stato da mar) above all cyprus; some of their citizens did find ready employement by other states apart from genoese and venetians also a good number of tuscans but these were all private pocket
 
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