Song Dynasty armor and other form of Chinese armor

[Dan Howard]

It is irrelevant where the armour was worn, what matters is where it was made. The Germans exported gothic armour all over Europe.

 

[Dan Howard]

Quoted from Duke of Lancaster in Chronicles of Froissart:

Many thanks.

 

[Todd Feinman]

Some people would be wrong. We have examples where the same subject is depicted wearing what appears to be both mail and mountain pattern.

Those are some confounding depictions! Every kind of scale form I came up with has been tried before, and none seem to offer great protection except perhaps from slashing blows. Are there sources that mention it resisting arrows? It seems to "suck" them in, unfortunately:

Many of these reconstructions seem good, but aren't very protective from penetrating blows.
The myths of Shan Wen Kia | Great Ming Military

 

[Yuyue]

Do we know in what ways Song armor differed from Khitan and Jurchen armor?

 

[Dan Howard]

Those are some confounding depictions! Every kind of scale form I came up with has been tried before, and none seem to offer great protection except perhaps from slashing blows. Are there sources that mention it resisting arrows? It seems to "suck" them in, unfortunately:

Many of these reconstructions seem good, but aren't very protective from penetrating blows.
The myths of Shan Wen Kia | Great Ming Military

You don't need armour to stop a sword cut; a winter coat can stop a sword. Proper armour was designed to stop spears and arrows, which were the most common threat on any battlefield. If one of our reconstructions is incapable of stopping these weapons then we have to revise the reconstruction.

 

[Todd Feinman]

You don't need armour to stop a sword cut; a winter coat can stop a sword. Proper armour was designed to stop spears and arrows, which were the most common threat on any battlefield. If one of our reconstructions is incapable of stopping these weapons then we have to revise the reconstruction.

Dan, do you think it was a real form of armour or an artistic device? Depics are in manuals and widesread art a d even sculpture.

 

[Dan Howard]

I think they had some kind of armour that looked like the depictions in the carvings - it wasn't just a different way to depict mail. We have no clue how it was made or even what it was called. If we don't know what it was called, we can't use any of the texts to give us an idea of its performance or construction.

 

[J2019]

I think they had some kind of armour that looked like the depictions in the carvings - it wasn't just a different way to depict mail. We have no clue how it was made or even what it was called. If we don't know what it was called, we can't use any of the texts to give us an idea of its performance or construction.

It is certainly depicted differently from mail.

There is an entire class of armor made in this way, not just with triangular plates. It may or may not need a new modern name for the type, so we can refer to different "weaves".

People focus too much on the Shan Wen Kia. The name is too limited as it is a modern name that refer only to the armor with the triangular plates.


You're right though, that we don't have physical evidence of it, so I will move on to another topic as I have derail too much.

 

[Todd Feinman]

The more that I look at the "mountain scale". the more I think I am seeing... external lacing and that would be why the edges of the shoulder guards and other pieces have nice neat bound edges; there are scales or lamellae under there.

 

[J2019]

Do we know in what ways Song armor differed from Khitan and Jurchen armor?

From what I see from illustration of both,

Liao armor look more like Tang or Five Dynasties armor, while Jin look more similar to Song.