South American soldiers

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,283
#11
His name was "Toutant-Beauregard":Toutant, name of his father,slave liberated,Beauregard name of a french business man who had adopted him.There was no black men or jews in the old french aristocracy because it was forbidden to marry with a woman who had no french and catholic origines.The tolerance for the protestants makes that they could marry-for the period of interdiction 1685-1787 in the foreign ambassades,and Orange,or in front of the notary,the protestant cult having "officially" disappeared.
This is getting off topic. However, what is your basis for claiming his father was freed slave and that he was adopted? There were slaves that looked white and were almost all white, but what does that have to do with Beauregard? If it were true, it was covered up, as it would have created problems for him as a US and CSA officer.

What is the relevance that there were no blacks in the old French aristocracy? Beauregard was not part of the old French aristocracy, although he was partly descended from it.

There were "black" slave owners. Some were set up by their fathers and others were free blacks who acquired wealth. My understanding is this occurred more in French areas than elsewhere in the US south. After Reconstruction in the US south, there were strict rules that anyone with any black ancestry was black. However, many people of slave ancestry who appeared white "passed" as white.
 
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May 2017
1,114
France
#12
If he would have belonged to the french aristocracy, his family would have been inscripted in the Grand Armorial de France,from de Jougla de Morenas and de Warren,the official encyclopedy, of the Association of the French Noblesse (ANF):the immatriculations correspond to the prooves of the aristocracy controled by the famous d Hozier (collections d Hozier,Nouveau d Hozier and Carre d Hozier) or Bernard Cherin,father and son,with Berthier de Sauvigny (the top of the top).There are others collections:Blue Dossiers,French Manuscrits,Original Pieces.All the collections are conserved now in the special rooms of Bussy Saint Georges,with temperature adapted.
It is not because you have a long name that you have aristocrats origins (4000 french families with long names figure in the "dictionnary of the Vanity",which was written by the anonymous redactors of the "Black Documents".
Ex:a family very well known in the USA,the family de Vimeur de Rochambeau,friends of George Washington.The descendant Lacroix was adopted and recuperated the name.The administrative obligation "Dupont-Dupont".
The conditions of the aristo filiation were fixed by the marques de Belleguise:"filiation male,naturelle et legitime,sans derogeance":by the men,without adoption,with catholic wedding,and of course without profession excepted the high adaministration,the army and the clergy.
For the adoption or illegitime relations ("batard" ...what a bad expression) you have three régulations:
Subject of the family of the king,aristocrat.
Subject of aristocrats,legitimation by letters of the king.
Subjects of the aristocrats without letters:"roturier".
 

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,283
#13
So you are saying that Toutant-Beauregard is a hyphenated name appearing aristocratic, but is not a French aristocratic name from the 18th century? That might be true, but how do you know he was part black?
 

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,283
#14
Southern plantation owners and so on were generally partly descended from British or French aristocracy, but wouldn't not be pure aristocrats like French before the Revolution. Some of the original Virginia and South Carolina planters were younger or illegitimate sons of titled noblemen. Then there were people who became wealthy and became planters. There wasn't much to do besides agriculture in the old south and there was no public education, so there were substantial barriers to advancement. However, you just needed money to own land and slaves. It wasn't an aristocratic system like in old France.

I just wonder what basis you have for claiming Beauregard's father was a freed slave. The name appearing aristocratic and not being so does not mean that. It isn't impossible, and of course a light freed slave would have similar ancestry to a planter, but not legitimate.
 
May 2017
1,114
France
#15
I don t want to be cruel or to pass for a french racist,but i think you know this very good general was named "the creole" which significates "Quarteron" or "Metis".
For the genealogical trees,i think you know the french aristos educated all the children,legitimates or no,in the same conditions,at the difference of the members of the bourgeoisie (like Karl Marx) who put their servant at the door when they informed the "master" of their sad situation.
In France,before the Revolution,the expression "batard" weared a sort of prestigious situation.The "batards",sometimes very well known (batard d Orleans,batard de Vendome etc...) said allways "my mother was so beautiful that my father prefered her to his wife" (certainly true).In the Antilles,the planters had often several women and you imagine the conséquences…..
 
May 2017
1,114
France
#16
My godfather,Mr Francois Jean Mallein,fondator of the Genealogical Library of Paris,has demonstrated that at the times of the war of the 100 years,a big quantity of aristos families have used the hard battles against the british to send to the slaughter the "batards" obliged to substitute to the knights who wanted to escape to the war.
In my diocese,the knight Seguin II Du Puy de Cendras,protector of the Cendras abbey (benedictin order) has sent to Azincourt (1415) his illegitimate brother ,Arnaud Du Puy,squire,who did his testment in the abbey of La Charite sur Loire,which belonged to his oncle Valentin,and disappeared on the battlefield.A lot of glorious soldiers have illegitimates origins,perhaps because they were the fruits of the passion...
 

Chlodio

Forum Staff
Aug 2016
4,292
Dispargum
#17
In the US at that time 'Creole' referred to those people of French and Spanish ancestry who were living in and around New Orleans at the time of the Louisiana Purchase in 1803. The US at the time was overwhelmingly British, Protestant, and English-speaking, so these French and Spanish speaking Roman Catholics were seen as slightly different and were given the name Creole. The Creoles were very rapidly absorbed into the American mainstream so that by the Civil War associating the word 'Creole' with Beauregard simply meant that he was from Louisiana. He was the first Confederate hero of the war and was appointed as one of the top Confederate generals. He was not a victim of discrimination because of his ancestry or religion. If he was known to have any black blood he would have never been commissioned a Confederate officer.
 

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,283
#18
As Chlodio mentioned, Creole meant people of Spanish and French ancestry in Louisiana and Mississippi, not part black. Slave illegitimate children were not recognized in what is now the US, and were legally the same as any other slave. It may have been somewhat different in French areas. There were more "black" slave owners set up by their fathers in Louisiana than elsewhere.

Probably many members of the French Louisiana elite did not have surnames on your list. If you look up Beaurgard on geni.com, almost all his ancestors had Du or De surnames. Not sure if that means they were on the list. Various people married into the elite who were not of old world aristocratic backgrounds.

I can't find any reference to Beauregard having black ancestry on the Internet. I assume you just made that up based on the name and him being called Creole. There was a big stigma about black ancestry, but not about some middle or lower class ancestry among the elite.
 
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Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,679
Portugal
#19
We are in the South American sub-forum, in a tread intitled “South American soldiers”, and yet we are mostly talking about Mexico, Louisiana, Mississippi and other USA states, all in North America.