Soviets invade Europe instead of Germany

Lucius

Forum Staff
Jan 2007
16,363
Nebraska
#2
What would have happened, if instead of the Germans, the Russians invaded Europe during World War II?
Interesting question. I think we must at least stipulate that the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact never came about, and, a decision having been taken in Moscow for a more muscular approach against a perceived threat from the capitalist countries. To this, add a desire to influence the political situation in the Balkans (the "traditional" aim of Russian foreign policy going back to the 19th century) - the general idea being to deny the passage of "capitalist" fleets through the Bosphorus.

In the real event, the Finns proved too doughty for assimilation. So, I'm guessing the entire project would have backfired badly on Stalin. The prodigious output of war material in the USSR was, in no small part, due to the fact that the Russians were in a fight for their very survival. Military adventurism would not have sufficed. I'm guessing the Allies would have been interested in turning the clock back to October of 1919, when Yudenich, Denikin and Pilsudski were advancing on Moscow, and the Western Allies occupied Archangel and Vladivostok.

Or something like that.
 
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Nick

Historum Emeritas
Jul 2006
6,111
UK
#3
Hitler would benefit. Imagine an alliance between Britain, France and Germany. As soon as they turn back the Russian advance Hitler would start an offensive. Once his allies had helped defeat Russia he'd turn on them. Without the Red Army holding back the majority of the Nazi forces western Europe would be overrun.
 

avon

Forum Staff
May 2008
14,253
#4
Hitler would benefit. Imagine an alliance between Britain, France and Germany. As soon as they turn back the Russian advance Hitler would start an offensive. Once his allies had helped defeat Russia he'd turn on them. Without the Red Army holding back the majority of the Nazi forces western Europe would be overrun.
Not sure that that would be the case at all, Nick. If Hitler had managed to gain his ill-got-gains in Russia without having to fight the British and French he would have done so. Lebensraum was Hitler's main objective, not France.
 

Nick

Historum Emeritas
Jul 2006
6,111
UK
#5
Not sure that that would be the case at all, Nick. If Hitler had managed to gain his ill-got-gains in Russia without having to fight the British and French he would have done so. Lebensraum was Hitler's main objective, not France.
France had humiliated Germany in 1918. Hitler wanted more than living space, he wanted revenge.
 

avon

Forum Staff
May 2008
14,253
#6
France had humiliated Germany in 1918. Hitler wanted more than living space, he wanted revenge.
Yes, I think that's true, but I think he would settle for Lebensraum - for a good while anyway! And, as we're talking speculatively, by the time that the war with Russia was complete and Hitler got his precious (it was his no.1 desire remember!!) Lebensraum, he would not have had too long to live anyway. When he dies his successor would undoubtedly be less radical - poss. Goering or Himmler - and less likely to attack a now well-equipped Anglo-French front.
 
Jul 2008
81
the continent of Asia, Planet Earth
#7
Okay...okay, let's assume that the Soviets crush Hitler, first. He's out of the picture, the holocaust did not happen, it's only Stalin vs. Churchill and maybe Roosevelt. What happens?
 

Nick

Historum Emeritas
Jul 2006
6,111
UK
#10
Who knows? They were anti-US and had a longstanding enmity with Russia. They'd probably form an alliance with Britain and France (but not America) as it was these two countries that first made contact and guided Japan to modernisation.
 

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