Spain and Portugal will have common celebration of the 500th anniversary of first circumnavigation of the Earth

Jul 2017
175
Neverland
#31
Do we also thank the ancient phoenicians and carthaginians, whose blood still freely flows thru the veins of both nations ?
So many colonies established and maritime experience passed,generation to generation to Portugal and Spain, should have brought
its logical conclusion in Latin America especially.

Congrats !
 
Oct 2015
4,956
Matosinhos Portugal
#32
Yes it is true the Portuguese can say thank you to the Phoenician people the salt were they that implanted in Portugal the salinas still exists today.

Phoenicians and Greeks in the Iberian Peninsula. Year 1100 A. C


But before the arrival of the Phoenicians


The Iberian Peninsula was already inhabited by other Iberian Celtic Lusitanos etc.


Origin of the name of the Iberian Peninsula

Origin - Ibéria - Greek

Origin - Península - latin

The Iberian peninsula have a multicultural culture with centuries of history.




Arabic words of Portuguese origin

Palavras portuguêsas de origem árabe

The Portuguese language has more than 8,000 thousand words of Arabic origin.

Al garve Algarve name origin árabe

The Portuguese language has 600 words of Arabic origin starting with the letters AL as it says in the video
 
Last edited:

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,134
Spain
#33
Do we also thank the ancient phoenicians and carthaginians, whose blood still freely flows thru the veins of both nations ?
So many colonies established and maritime experience passed,generation to generation to Portugal and Spain, should have brought
its logical conclusion in Latin America especially.

Congrats !
And the Kingdom of Tartessos... in Guadalquivir Valley...
 
Likes: Tulius
Jul 2017
175
Neverland
#35
Yes it is true the Portuguese can say thank you to the Phoenician people the salt were they that implanted in Portugal the salinas still exists today.

Phoenicians and Greeks in the Iberian Peninsula. Year 1100 A. C


But before the arrival of the Phoenicians


The Iberian Peninsula was already inhabited by other Iberian Celtic Lusitanos etc.


Origin of the name of the Iberian Peninsula

Origin - Ibéria - Greek

Origin - Península - latin

The Iberian peninsula have a multicultural culture with centuries of history.




Arabic words of Portuguese origin

Palavras portuguêsas de origem árabe

The Portuguese language has more than 8,000 thousand words of Arabic origin.

Al garve Algarve name origin árabe

The Portuguese language has 600 words of Arabic origin starting with the letters AL as it says in the video
Of course the Portuguese lingo will have so many words of Arabic(semitic) origin. The Carthaginians(semites) established so many colonies in both Portugal and Spain, plus let's not omit the Phoenicians(semitic people) before them.

To add to the puzzle of semitic influences on both languages, after the expulsion of the jews from England in the late 1200s, and especially from Spain, tens of thousands settled in Portugal. Some became conversos, some went eastward in Europe.

Yes, the river Ebros from greek etymology gave the name Iberian to this part of Europe. Greeks of course have plenty of semitic roots in themselves too - Phoenician colonies and the Danaos(the Israelite tribe of Judges), the latter also part of the Sea People and named..Denyen by the Egyptians.
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,134
Spain
#36
The 18 survivors achieved the Circumnavigation on Earth and arrived to Sanlúcar de Barrameda, September 6th 1522 were:

13 Spaniards (and greeks)
3 Italians
1 Portuguese
1 German
 
Last edited:

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,134
Spain
#37
The names of the first people of Earth to give a tour around the planet:

Juan Sebastian el Cano, (Spanish). From Guetaria. Captain and chief.
Miguel de Rodas (Greek), From Rhodes. Boatswain
Juan de Acurio (Spanish), from Bermeo. Pilot
Antonio Lombardo Pigafetta (Italian). From Vicenza. Chronicler.
Juan de Arratia (Spanish). From Bilbao. Cabin boy.
Juan de Zubileta (Spanish): From Baracaldo. Page boy.
Martín de Yudicibus (Italian). From Genoa. Sailor
Francisco Albo (Greek). From Chios. Pilot
Hernando de Bustamante (Spanish). From Alcántara. Sailor and barber.
Nicolás el Griego (Greek). From Naples. Sailor
Miguel Sánchez (Spanish). From Rhodes. Sailor
Antonio Hernández Colmenero (Spanish) From Huelva. Sailor
Francisco Rodrígues (Portuguese). From Seville. Sailor
Juan Rodríguez (Spanish). From Huelva. Sailor
Diego Carmena (Spanish). From Seville. Sailor
Juan de Aquisgrán (German). From Aquisgran. Gunner.
Vasco Gómez Gallego (Spanish). From Bayona. Cabin boy
Juan de Santander (Spanish). From Cueto. Cabin boy.

So we have 18 survivors: 11 Spaniards, 3 Greeks, 2 Italians, 1 Portuguese and 1 German.
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
4,861
Portugal
#38
You are right sparky.. but I don´t know why the Portuguese state celebrate... it is as if Germany celebrate Jena Victory or USA the fall down of Saigon... the Circumnavigation was a sucess in spite of Portugal.... but socialists are socialist.... everywhere... I am afraid...
Here I don’t agree with you. It doesn’t have to due with the fact of being socialist or not the government (the first initiatives in Portugal were led by the right wing of the PSD) but to the fact that the event affected us all. There are a Order of Magellan in the US Navy. And yet Magalhães wasn’t a US citizen and it didn’t work for the USA government. “Near” the Milky Way there is a Cloud called Magelhães in his honour, or better in the honnor of his voyage. There are historical events that affect us all. Not just the Portuguese, the Spanish or the Socialist. And according to your last post, recalling the 18 survivors, from several origins (Germany, Italy, Greece…), we can have a list there of the countries that could be invited to participate. Their participation wouldn’t make the expedition less Castilian. Curiously when we see the Columbus commemorations in the USA, especially among the “Italian” descendents, we tend to forget that we are not sure that he was Italian, and that he didn’t reach the territory that today belongs to a USA state. So, aren’t they allowed to celebrate the event? I think so, they have that right. And there aren’t that many socialists in the USA commemorating Columbus Day. Probably there are more among the critics.

let's give to the Portuguese what belong to Henry the navigator

Portugal had a school of seamanship with navigation and ship design at Sagres

they were right up there from the start and led the field for decades

being a Portugese captain was in itself a fine recommendation
Being the devils advocate here, but Henry, the man that rarely navigated, had and still has too much good historiography, especially after the battle of Alfarrobeira. It was one of those case where the winner made the history. The Sagres school is mostly a myth, and his brothers made basically the same that he did… sent man to the sea to explore the African coast and raid and trade in coastal villages.

Congratulations, Spain and Portugal, good job.

Don't forget to invite Flat Earth Society members to your festivities ;) The Flat Earth Society
Heheheh!!!

Of course the Portuguese lingo will have so many words of Arabic(semitic) origin. The Carthaginians(semites) established so many colonies in both Portugal and Spain, plus let's not omit the Phoenicians(semitic people) before them.

To add to the puzzle of semitic influences on both languages, after the expulsion of the jews from England in the late 1200s, and especially from Spain, tens of thousands settled in Portugal. Some became conversos, some went eastward in Europe.

Yes, the river Ebros from greek etymology gave the name Iberian to this part of Europe. Greeks of course have plenty of semitic roots in themselves too - Phoenician colonies and the Danaos(the Israelite tribe of Judges), the latter also part of the Sea People and named..Denyen by the Egyptians.
Let us not over emphasize or over generalize it. While I am not a linguist expert I must say that when we talk about the influences of the Arabic language in the Portuguese, we talk solely about the Arabic, as a superstratum (ie came after the Latin), while the Phoenician (including the Carthaginian) is a substratum (ie came before the Latin). And the fact that both the Arabic and the Phoenician are classified as Semitic languages doesn’t invalidate that the distinction between the two can be made. For instance the differentiation can be made from the words that arrived to the Portuguese from the Castilian, the French or the Italian, and yet all are Latin (Romance) languages; or even from the English or Greek, and yet all are Indo-European languages.
 

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,822
Sydney
#39
Modern languages of countries having had lots of contacts with others have plenty of borrowed words ,
that's normal and reflect their adventurous spirit and their past connections
Abyss ...Sumerian
Tsunami ...Japanese
Taboo ....Polynesian
shaman ...Siberian
sofa ...Turkish
Alcohol ...Arabic
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,134
Spain
#40
Here I don’t agree with you. It doesn’t have to due with the fact of being socialist or not the government (the first initiatives in Portugal were led by the right wing of the PSD) but to the fact that the event affected us all. There are a Order of Magellan in the US Navy. And yet Magalhães wasn’t a US citizen and it didn’t work for the USA government. “Near” the Milky Way there is a Cloud called Magelhães in his honour, or better in the honnor of his voyage. There are historical events that affect us all. Not just the Portuguese, the Spanish or the Socialist. And according to your last post, recalling the 18 survivors, from several origins (Germany, Italy, Greece…), we can have a list there of the countries that could be invited to participate. Their participation wouldn’t make the expedition less Castilian. Curiously when we see the Columbus commemorations in the USA, especially among the “Italian” descendents, we tend to forget that we are not sure that he was Italian, and that he didn’t reach the territory that today belongs to a USA state. So, aren’t they allowed to celebrate the event? I think so, they have that right. And there aren’t that many socialists in the USA commemorating Columbus Day. Probably there are more among the critics.



Being the devils advocate here, but Henry, the man that rarely navigated, had and still has too much good historiography, especially after the battle of Alfarrobeira. It was one of those case where the winner made the history. The Sagres school is mostly a myth, and his brothers made basically the same that he did… sent man to the sea to explore the African coast and raid and trade in coastal villages.



Heheheh!!!



Let us not over emphasize or over generalize it. While I am not a linguist expert I must say that when we talk about the influences of the Arabic language in the Portuguese, we talk solely about the Arabic, as a superstratum (ie came after the Latin), while the Phoenician (including the Carthaginian) is a substratum (ie came before the Latin). And the fact that both the Arabic and the Phoenician are classified as Semitic languages doesn’t invalidate that the distinction between the two can be made. For instance the differentiation can be made from the words that arrived to the Portuguese from the Castilian, the French or the Italian, and yet all are Latin (Romance) languages; or even from the English or Greek, and yet all are Indo-European languages.
Well. that´s the problem. the manipulation as the Columbus day in USA... only because italian inmigrants arrived to USA from 1890 onward.. we cannot change the history... nor Italy no any Italian state have nothing to do with the discovery, the expedition nothing... it is Spain (the fact Spanish people didn´t inmigrate to USA... don´t change the fact.... it is a Spanish expedition.. with Spanish money, under Spanish kings, into Spanish ships and with Spanish crews (and we have the whole of the names people took part in 1492 expedition)....by other side.. to say Columbus was Italian....is not so easy...it is a fact he wrote Spanish and Italian didn´t.

Politicians and journalist must be out from history.

I love Sagres... when I was a teen I went to Sagres and I slept in the same fortress (a Youth Hostel in those days).. Algarve is great and Sagres is Special...
 

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