Spartan marriage ceremony.

Sep 2014
756
Texas
#41
I don't see the relevance of specific heterosexuality in ancient Greece no one doubts that. I don't see the relevance of gay and straight. In prisons, the members of gangs make the other prisoners act as their "wives" and so on. Most of the prisoners are not gay, but pretty much everyone has to do it.

Sexual references are often veiled. When Plutarch states that about how the brides dressed and so on, he implied a lot about what went on in Spartan barracks / military schools. It is impossible to be sure whether it is true at this point.
It certainly is a popular gay myth.
 
Sep 2014
756
Texas
#42
It certainly is a popular gay myth.
And how did a girl with short hair and a shave nether regions help a boy with long hair and a hairy dick think he was having sex with another boy? Surely the moment his hand touched her shaved pussy he would have gotten the idea she wasn't a boy. A real gay man would not have been able to function.

The short hair came from the days when a man had to steal his bride from her family. If she wanted him to think she was a boy she would have kept her hair long and carried a leather play pretty as mentioned in Lysistrata.
 
Sep 2014
756
Texas
#43
If you made a reasoning about this and sourced, I missed it, so could you point that sourced reasoning or if it was not yet stated to source this and elaborate it?
Thucydides on the Syracuse campaign and the history of Nicias. Ecoli infections are hell. How could anyone send a sick man into battle?
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
4,710
Portugal
#44
Thucydides on the Syracuse campaign and the history of Nicias. Ecoli infections are hell. How could anyone send a sick man into battle?
I don’t read about the Syracusian campaign for some time, I will have to take a look, but sending sick men to battle happened quite frequently in history.

Re-reading your other post “gay sex that caused Athens their fleet at Syracuse.”, you mean that it was homosexual sex that lead to the departure of the fleet to Syracuse or that lead to the loss of the expedition? I am not connecting the dots betewn that and the sick men.
 
Sep 2014
756
Texas
#45
I don’t read about the Syracusian campaign for some time, I will have to take a look, but sending sick men to battle happened quite frequently in history.

Re-reading your other post “gay sex that caused Athens their fleet at Syracuse.”, you mean that it was homosexual sex that lead to the departure of the fleet to Syracuse or that lead to the loss of the expedition? I am not connecting the dots betewn that and the sick men.
Cause and effect in the eyes of the Athenians. Certainly Nicias being gay did not mean he was incapable of being a good commander....pissing blood meant he was incapable of being a good commander. The entire fleet was lost and someone had to pay.
 
Sep 2014
756
Texas
#46
My phone is not cooperating. Nicias was certainly a part of the elite which included Socrates and Pericles' son. The average Athenian wanted revenge. The men who preached their superiority to the average slob felt the full wrath

So many people wanted Alcibiades dead, I wonder about that sometimes.

Athenian democracy owes a debt of gratitude to two gay men...and I bet you can connect those dots... but when disaster hit, those were the first people they blamed. Even Thucydides who couldn't stop Brasidas may have been murdered over that
 

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
5,765
#47
Athenian democracy owes a debt of gratitude to two gay men...
I don't know if you can determine if someone is gay from ancient Greek sources. There are many people today who are "bi" or who engage in that sort of thing, but also hetersexual relations. In Greek culture, it was more acceptable and prevalent. There aren't enough details in ancient sources to determine that someone was gay in our sense.
 
Sep 2014
756
Texas
#48
As was pointed out to me on Quora, just because you marry doesn't mean you like women. I accept that. But my point was in the beginning was girls didn't have to trick boys into sex, and if they did, short hair and a shaved pubic region would not do it. Spartan boys had long hair and didn't shave their privates. Acrotatus did not fight the great Pyrrhus of Macedonia because he thought Chilonis was a boy.
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
4,710
Portugal
#49
Cause and effect in the eyes of the Athenians. Certainly Nicias being gay did not mean he was incapable of being a good commander....pissing blood meant he was incapable of being a good commander. The entire fleet was lost and someone had to pay.
I think I begun to understand your reasoning. For now it seems to me a bit stretched out, but I will keep an open mind and continue to follow this thread.
 

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