Spartan marriage ceremony.

Sep 2014
756
Texas
#51
So would you consider Alexander the Great gay? Was he a good commander?
So would you consider Alexander the Great gay? Was he a good commander?
Alexander was a great commander but he was trained from birth to be a leader. was he gay? As I have been told repeatedly, just because he was married does not mean he was straight or bisexual. I used to argue that he liked women, but now I lean towards he probably just tolerated them because it was expected of him.I mean Hadrian was gay and a great leader. Being gay has no effect on what you are good at.

I just don;t understand why treating women fairly and honestly is such a threat? I've seen us compared to animals here on Historum and no one got upset, but stand up and say women didn't have to trick men and everyone gets all bent out of shape. Sorry, but women do not have to trick men, and what we are is what we are. Are you misogynist because you don't want to have sex with a woman? Is that a choice? Or is it who you are?
 

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
5,765
#52
I see your point about the story of brides dressing as men seeming unlikely. It could be that the culture was different enough that it was true. However, it could be exagerated or meant to convey the extent of homosexual activity of teenage Spartans in those military schools.
 
Sep 2014
756
Texas
#53
I found this today in Herodotus' histories. Something I had missed when I first wrote about Demaratus. He literally stole his cousin's bride to be. Percalus was to marry Leotychides, Demaratus' cousin, but Demaratus got their first and stole her. He married her himself. This goes back to what I was saying about how abduction was not unusual and a part of their marriage ritual...now Demaratus actually stole the girl, but he couldn't have married her without her permission.

Yes there were gay boys in Sparta and gay men, but unless Plutarch and the other writers are focusing on only the heterosexual stories (which is a possibility), unmarried men and women not only knew each other but associated with each other....Plutarch tells of couples dating....and yes I accept that some boys probably did bully the younger kids into giving it up...but I always come back to two problems that comes from anal sex...UTIs and a condition that comes from anal sex messing up the rectum. And no one anywhere says that boys were taken advantage of. But yes....gay men and boys existed and had sex with each other and sometimes suffered the consequences of an intolerant society. If the purpose was to make more Spartans and you just can't do it, that has got to be torturous.

I do not believe and no one can convince me otherwise that boys were all having gay sex. Some were..yes....but I have yet to meet a male who loves women who has sex with other males. Even my gay friend on Quora who desperately wanted his straight friend to be his lover and offered him oral sex, which he accepted, could not make him return the favor. The most telling thing my friend said was, I wish he hadn't accepted it.If the premise is straight boys took advantage of gay boys willing to do anything to please them, that is a terrible possibility. But I see it all the time. A boy wants to know how to make his straight friend gay. How do I make him love me back?

Outside of Lysander whose marriage was odd....if you know the story, you know he was after a different girl, but he agreed to the conditions, these people knew each other as teenagers. And let's not forget that there were also lesbians in Sparta who go unmentioned. These girls also had to marry.
 

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