(SPOILERS) A Song of Ice and Fire

Oct 2011
336
Croatia
#11
I'm a fan of both as well, but I am cognizant of the fact that one is an attempted rebuttal of the other. I tolerate that; some other people might not.

And I agree with you re: Danaerys
What is interesting here is that Tolkien's political system as used for Gondor is actually more realistic than Westeros' political system. Gondor's political system is based on Byzantine Empire, while Westeros is based on Wars of Roses England. But Gondor is not that different in size from Byzantine Empire - as present in Lord of the Rings it has surface of 716 426 suqare miles (1 855 530 km2) which is comparable to Byzantine Empire as it was in 1025 (1 675 000 km2). Westeros, on the other hand, is massively larger than Medieval England, being about half the surface are of South America. Yet, as Martin says, War of the Five Kings is based on Wars of the Roses.
 
Likes: Gvelion
Sep 2016
1,208
Georgia
#13
OK, to start with, Daenerys seems to be kinda delusional. And it is not a new thing. In fact, indications of that can be seen as early as her marriage to Khal Drogo. But the clearest indication is her Messiah complex, where she believes she can just overturn thousands of years of slavery. And once that doesn't work, she breaks. "Dragon does not sow". Right now, in the books, Daenerys is well on her way to becoming a moustache-twirling villain, going all "fire and blood" on her enemies. Even earlier, she nearly crucified thousands of people in Mereen.
Which is disappointing, because Frank Herbert managed to do it better in the Dune and created much more nuanced character. Dune had a better take on the whole ,, Messiah '' trope.
 
Jan 2017
3,386
Republika Srpska
#14
  • Maki

    Maki

I disagree with @Picard's predictions about Daenerys. I agree she has a Messiah complex and will turn into an antagonist, I don't think she will turn into a moustache-twirling villain. ASOIAF simply does not have those. It does not have that many "all bad" characters, only Gregor and Ramsay if I am not forgetting anyone.
 
Jul 2019
554
New Jersey
#15
I disagree with @Picard's predictions about Daenerys. I agree she has a Messiah complex and will turn into an antagonist, I don't think she will turn into a moustache-twirling villain. ASOIAF simply does not have those. It does not have that many "all bad" characters, only Gregor and Ramsay if I am not forgetting anyone.
There was little to commend Joffrey, except maybe that he was still pretty young.
 
Jan 2017
3,386
Republika Srpska
#16
  • Maki

    Maki

There was little to commend Joffrey, except maybe that he was still pretty young.
Yeah, but book Joffrey was more of a spoiled brat that was raised to believe that he had the power to do anything. He abused Sansa and that was pretty horrible, but I feel he was very much a victim of his own upbringing. Still, I guess he can be put in the "all bad" category.
 
Jan 2017
3,386
Republika Srpska
#18
  • Maki

    Maki

Also if we're including kids who were disfigured by their upbringing we can include Robert Arryn. Obviously not his fault at all but he's one of the most pathetic characters. Not evil, but just hopeless.
Yeah, Sweetrobin had a pretty damaging upbringing and it seems the future is also not looking very bright for him.
 
Likes: Abraham95
Feb 2013
4,313
Coastal Florida
#19
So far as I'm aware ASOIAF is intended to be a deliberate subversion of Tolkien-esque tropes, where good is good, evil is evil, and good triumphs in the end. So if you're a Tolkien fan I'd say it's rather unsurprising that GRRM's work doesn't impress you.
It had less to do with the subject matter and more to do with what seemed to me a boring style of writing. It's already a genre filled with cliche and rehashed ideas so, to stand out, you have to write prose that really engages the reader. At that time, it didn't seem to me this novel had it.
 
Jul 2019
554
New Jersey
#20
It had less to do with the subject matter and more to do with what seemed to me a boring style of writing. It's already a genre filled with cliche and rehashed ideas so, to stand out, you have to write prose that really engages the reader. At that time, it didn't seem to me this novel had it.
It doesn't. The prose tends to be rather plain and forceful.
 

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