Staline s strategy

Sep 2012
9,156
India
#42
That the USSR was too big, too cold and had a huge army was well known to Hitler and his generals, yet they embarked on an aggressive war against a country which was supplying scarce raw materials to Germany ! Makes me think that not only Hitler but his war planning staff including generals like Franz Halder were loony, too.
 
Mar 2019
1,612
Kansas
#43
That the USSR was too big, too cold and had a huge army was well known to Hitler and his generals, yet they embarked on an aggressive war against a country which was supplying scarce raw materials to Germany ! Makes me think that not only Hitler but his war planning staff including generals like Franz Halder were loony, too.
There is an old idea of victory disease. Start winning enough and you think yourself unbeatable. The other thing they thought would help was a collapse of the Soviet government, the invasion might actually trigger a revolution. The only problem was the Soviet people did not see Hitler as a better option to what they had. An old joke from the time goes "We had a choice between two dictators, we chose the one that spoke Russian lol
 
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sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,786
Sydney
#44
the main strategy for Hitler was to see the regime collapse in a few weeks
he wanted the food and raw materials in the south , this would deprive the USSR of the resources to wage war
the generals wanted to beat the army in the field then take the capital and proclaime victory
on the whole Hitler was in the right
Stalin also was concerned about the South , he piled up troops around Kiev , only to see them wasted
 
Sep 2016
1,208
Georgia
#45
And more....

But it was minor compared to WW2
Russia also lost Finland. Because new Soviet government recognized Finland as independent country.

Bolsheviks then destroyed and crushed Left Esers in the summer of 1918 at the pretense, that they were trying to sabotage the peace between Soviet Russia and Germany.
 
Last edited:
Nov 2015
1,916
Kyiv
#46
That the USSR was too big, too cold and had a huge army was well known to Hitler and his generals, yet they embarked on an aggressive war against a country which was supplying scarce raw materials to Germany ! Makes me think that not only Hitler but his war planning staff including generals like Franz Halder were loony, too.
I think Hitler was incredibly happy when the Russians brought to the Germans the Secret Protocol for signing in August 1939. He hoped at best to neutralize Russia with all her military power during the Polish campaign. At the same time, the risks that Russia would return to the topic of negotiations with England and France would remain very significant. But instead, the Russians invited the Germans to take part in cutting Eastern Europe along with them. And in fact the Russians expressed a great desire to join the "party of war" in August 1939.

The readiness of the Russians for rapprochement and participation in the power redistribution of the map of Europe inspired Hitler. Here is what he wrote about this to his friend Mussolini on August 25, 1939

- I believe I may say to you, Duce, that through the negotiations with Soviet Russia a completely new situation in world politics has been produced which must be regarded as the greatest possible gain for the Axis.

The Avalon Project : Nazi-Soviet Relations 1939-1941

Hitler’s euphoria of Russia lasted until the summer of 1940. Because of the very friendly “rear” — I mean Russia — Hitler, I am convinced, decided to invade France and carry out a large ground operation against the Anglo-French forces. And then the Russians puzzled the Fuhrer. They clearly went beyond the agreements with the Germans and violated the Secret Protocol by annexing Bukovina and capturing the whole of Lithuania - with the Red Army reaching the eastern border of the Reich.

It was after this that the Führer ordered the preparation of a plan of war with Russia - at that time - in case the Russians further confirm Hitler's suspicions of the reliability of the Russian partner. And after negotiations with the Russians in late 1940 he saw that the Russians focused their eyes on the Bosphorus and wanted to get good from the Germans to act against Turkey. This meant that the Red Army would embrace the Balkans from the east and create a situation that was very unpleasant for the Germans. And the passage of Russian troops through Romania and Bulgaria posed a high risk of a repetition of the Baltic scenario - with the appearance on the USSR map of new union republics - the Romanian and Bulgarian ones. If not Turkish in addition))

And then went the script common for such characters. Two robbers who acted together in Poland lost trust in each other and one decided to stick a knife in the side of the other.

Hitler realized that the Russians were playing a bad game. And he decided to remove the yesterday's comrade-in-arms who had lost his confidence.
 
Sep 2012
9,156
India
#47
I think Hitler was incredibly happy when the Russians brought to the Germans the Secret Protocol for signing in August 1939. He hoped at best to neutralize Russia with all her military power during the Polish campaign. At the same time, the risks that Russia would return to the topic of negotiations with England and France would remain very significant. But instead, the Russians invited the Germans to take part in cutting Eastern Europe along with them. And in fact the Russians expressed a great desire to join the "party of war" in August 1939.

The readiness of the Russians for rapprochement and participation in the power redistribution of the map of Europe inspired Hitler. Here is what he wrote about this to his friend Mussolini on August 25, 1939

- I believe I may say to you, Duce, that through the negotiations with Soviet Russia a completely new situation in world politics has been produced which must be regarded as the greatest possible gain for the Axis.

The Avalon Project : Nazi-Soviet Relations 1939-1941

Hitler’s euphoria of Russia lasted until the summer of 1940. Because of the very friendly “rear” — I mean Russia — Hitler, I am convinced, decided to invade France and carry out a large ground operation against the Anglo-French forces. And then the Russians puzzled the Fuhrer. They clearly went beyond the agreements with the Germans and violated the Secret Protocol by annexing Bukovina and capturing the whole of Lithuania - with the Red Army reaching the eastern border of the Reich.

It was after this that the Führer ordered the preparation of a plan of war with Russia - at that time - in case the Russians further confirm Hitler's suspicions of the reliability of the Russian partner. And after negotiations with the Russians in late 1940 he saw that the Russians focused their eyes on the Bosphorus and wanted to get good from the Germans to act against Turkey. This meant that the Red Army would embrace the Balkans from the east and create a situation that was very unpleasant for the Germans. And the passage of Russian troops through Romania and Bulgaria posed a high risk of a repetition of the Baltic scenario - with the appearance on the USSR map of new union republics - the Romanian and Bulgarian ones. If not Turkish in addition))

And then went the script common for such characters. Two robbers who acted together in Poland lost trust in each other and one decided to stick a knife in the side of the other.

Hitler realized that the Russians were playing a bad game. And he decided to remove the yesterday's comrade-in-arms who had lost his confidence.
But when Operation Barbarossa started Hitler wrote to Mussolini that with the decision to attack the Soviet Union, he has felt as if a weight had been cast off his shoulders ( or words to that effect ). He knew his ' no war pact ' was an artificial construction. He had gone through it only in order to secure his rear when he turned west. But the moot question is why he did attack the Soviet Union inspite of the Soviet Union scrupulously supplying him all the scarce raw materials he lacked. What was the strategic goal or goals he had in mind when he thought of winning and holding on the A-A line ?
 
Nov 2015
1,916
Kyiv
#48
That is speculation.... The ww1 experience was that Russia collapsed, even though its territorial losses were relatively minor
To make the loss of territory minimal, Soviet Russia had to start a series of aggressive campaigns against the same new and fledgling national states that arose on the lands of the former Russian Empire as the RSFSR herself.

The only territory that it gave in kindly was Finland which at the end of 1917 was of little interest to the Bolshevik government of Russia. Moreover, as far as I know, the decision on granting Finland sovereignty has already been prepared by the Provisional Government of Russia and agreed with the Finns in advance, and Lenin only signed a ready-made text.

Two months after the seizure of power in Russia by Bolsheviks the Council of People's Commissars (the government of red Russia) announced an ultimatum to the Ukrainian People’s Republic and began a military campaign against her with the goal of annexing. Next was a series of campaigns in Transcaucasia, in Turkestan - and again - to Ukraine, where the RSFSR mated its lands with another predator - Poland, which regained its sovereignty in 1918 - after a century and a half of its loss. There the war ended badly for the Russians - and they could drive Volyn under their heel again only in 1939, having entered into an agreement with Nazi Germany. At the same time, they annexed Galicia in 1939 which was never part of the Russian Empire, and in 1940 - Bukovina, which also never was in Russian Empire.
 
Nov 2015
1,916
Kyiv
#49
But when Operation Barbarossa started Hitler wrote to Mussolini that with the decision to attack the Soviet Union, he has felt as if a weight had been cast off his shoulders ( or words to that effect ). He knew his ' no war pact ' was an artificial construction. He had gone through it only in order to secure his rear when he turned west. But the moot question is why he did attack the Soviet Union inspite of the Soviet Union scrupulously supplying him all the scarce raw materials he lacked. What was the strategic goal or goals he had in mind when he thought of winning and holding on the A-A line ?
In the same letter of June 21, 1941, Hitler explains to Mussolini that he is only now making a final decision to attack Russia, and explains why

Adolf Hitler's Letter to Benito Mussolini Explaining the Invasion of the Soviet Union - Wikisource, the free online library

= Really, all available Russian forces are at our border. ... If circumstances should give me cause to employ the German air force against England, there is danger that Russia will then begin its strategy of extortion in the South and North, to which I would have to yield in silence, simply from a feeling of air inferiority. It would, above all, not then be possible for me without adequate support from an air force, to attack the Russian fortifications with the divisions stationed in the East. If I do not wish to expose myself to this danger, then perhaps the whole year of 1941 will go by without any change in the general situation. On the contrary. England will be all the less ready for peace, for it will be able to pin its hopes on the Russian partner. Indeed, this hope must naturally even grow with the progress in preparedness of the Russian armed forces. And behind this is the mass delivery of war material from America which they hope to get in 1942

Aside from this, Duce, it is not even certain whether shall have this time, for with so gigantic a concentration of forces on both sides — for I also was compelled to place more and more armored units on the eastern border, also to call Finland's and Rumania's attention to the danger — there is the possibility that the shooting will start spontaneously at any moment. =

- And I have no doubt that economic considerations are the last thing Hitler thought about when attacking Russia. Although Ukrainian bread, coal and iron ore and, if possible, Baku oil would be a pleasant prize for the Germans if Barbarossa ended in a complete victory. The Russians withdrew from the agreement - from the Secret Protocol - in the summer of 1940. And the Germans could not leave their partner, who at any moment could make moves that could be very unpleasant for the Germans, in their deep rear when they would begin landing on the British Isles
 
Nov 2015
1,916
Kyiv
#50
What was the strategic goal or goals he had in mind when he thought of winning and holding on the A-A line ?
Barbaross’s plan suggested that the Germans would drive the Russians over the Volga. Among other things, the blocking of the Volga deprived the Russians of 90% of the ability to deliver Baku oil - this river was the main artery of its delivery to Russia, and they did not have a full-fledged alternative throughout the WWII. By the way, this is the main reason for the Germans' persistent attempts to capture Stalingrad - a city on this river - in 1942. At the same time, because Russian aviation did not reach either the Reich or the Romanian oil fields flying from the airfields on the left bank of the Volga. Having retreated beyond the Volga, they lost most of the main industrial regions. Although Hitler was mistaken here as he did not know that the Russians had been preparing for a total war with all their might the previous decade. And they successfully evacuated many military factories to the rear in 1941 according to the evacuation plan, which they managed to develop long before the German invasion of Russia. And I think that Hitler hoped that the loss of vast territories and especially Moscow which was much more for the Russians than just a capital, would be a powerful blow to the authority of the Bolshevik authorities and put them at risk of internal collisions in the rest of Russia.

Simply, the key goal of the German invasion of Russia was to eliminate the Russian military threat to Germany.
 

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