Sweden's war aims if it will enter WWI on the CP side?

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,742
SoCal
#1
What are Sweden's war aims going to be if it will enter World War I on the Central Powers side? Is it going to demand Finland, Livonia, and Estonia or is it going to settle for less? Also, is there anything else that Sweden is going to demand? I'm presuming that Petrograd is going to be off-limits since it's the Russian capital.

BTW, here's a map of historical Swedish territorial expansion and contraction:



@NordicDemosthenes Any thoughts on this? After all, you previously told me that you're an expert on Swedish history. :)
 
Apr 2018
979
Upland, Sweden
#2
What are Sweden's war aims going to be if it will enter World War I on the Central Powers side? Is it going to demand Finland, Livonia, and Estonia or is it going to settle for less? Also, is there anything else that Sweden is going to demand? I'm presuming that Petrograd is going to be off-limits since it's the Russian capital.

BTW, here's a map of historical Swedish territorial expansion and contraction:



@NordicDemosthenes Any thoughts on this? After all, you previously told me that you're an expert on Swedish history. :)
Not sure I told you I was an expert on Swedish history haha, I'm not. It's probably what I'm best at compared to my other fields of knowledge, if that says anything.

Just to be short, in the unlikely event Sweden joined the Central Powers then any war aims would probably be limited to trying to create some kind of... something with Finland. Sweden would want to annex Åland, I can tell you that much.

However, I'm not sure I see the scenario happening right of the bat to begin with, for various domestic reasons. You'd have to change a couple of things in the two decades before WW1.

Anyway, I'll respond more in two days - I still have exams monday, I was too tempted yesterday by your thread on Rome/Carthage :p
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,742
SoCal
#3
Not sure I told you I was an expert on Swedish history haha, I'm not. It's probably what I'm best at compared to my other fields of knowledge, if that says anything.

Just to be short, in the unlikely event Sweden joined the Central Powers then any war aims would probably be limited to trying to create some kind of... something with Finland. Sweden would want to annex Åland, I can tell you that much.

However, I'm not sure I see the scenario happening right of the bat to begin with, for various domestic reasons. You'd have to change a couple of things in the two decades before WW1.

Anyway, I'll respond more in two days - I still have exams monday, I was too tempted yesterday by your thread on Rome/Carthage :p
Good luck on your exams! :)

Anyway, I'll eagerly read what you'll write on Monday, but I do have one quick question for you: What about Livonia and Estonia? Might Sweden be interested in them as well?
 
Apr 2018
979
Upland, Sweden
#4
Good luck on your exams! :)

Anyway, I'll eagerly read what you'll write on Monday, but I do have one quick question for you: What about Livonia and Estonia? Might Sweden be interested in them as well?
Thanks! :)

I'm sure there'd be all sorts of more crackpot fin-de siecle Swedes with konstant erections from thinking about Karl XII who would *want* Estonia and Livonia. I don't see it realistically happening, and I think the Government would be sane enough to see that, even of they'd join the CPs. ;)

EDIT for my previous post: Let's just say it's a matter of domestic and "domestic" issues
 
Likes: Futurist

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,742
SoCal
#5
Thanks! :)

I'm sure there'd be all sorts of more crackpot fin-de siecle Swedes with konstant erections from thinking about Karl XII who would *want* Estonia and Livonia. I don't see it realistically happening, and I think the Government would be sane enough to see that, even of they'd join the CPs. ;)
That makes sense. Of course, there is a back up option--create independent Latvian and Estonian states (or even a unified United Baltic Duchy) and put a Swedish prince on it so that they would be able to form an economic and/or political union with Sweden. I would think that, in the event of a huge CP victory in the East, the Latvians and Estonians are probably going to be better off under Swedish rule than under German rule since the ratio of Swedes to Balts would be much lower than the ratio of Germans to Balts (which would probably mean a lighter Swedish hand in Latvia and Estonia relative to Germany).
 
Apr 2018
979
Upland, Sweden
#8
That makes sense. Of course, there is a back up option--create independent Latvian and Estonian states (or even a unified United Baltic Duchy) and put a Swedish prince on it so that they would be able to form an economic and/or political union with Sweden. I would think that, in the event of a huge CP victory in the East, the Latvians and Estonians are probably going to be better off under Swedish rule than under German rule since the ratio of Swedes to Balts would be much lower than the ratio of Germans to Balts (which would probably mean a lighter Swedish hand in Latvia and Estonia relative to Germany).
A Swedish prince in a mainly German duchy? Interesting...

That would make sense in a way, still does not feel entirely as something the Germans would go along with... Although the Swedish King at the time was married to Wilhelm IIs niece if I remember correctly so there might be something to it
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,742
SoCal
#10
Too embarrassing to tell me? :) ;)

A Swedish prince in a mainly German duchy? Interesting...
Yeah. I mean, most people in Latvia and Estonia aren't ethnic Germans and thus to them it shouldn't make much of a difference whether they're ruled by a German or a Swede. The Swede might even be more appealing since there is a history of German domination in Latvia and Estonia--with German elites ruling over Latvian and Estonian peasants for centuries. Thus, a Swedish monarch might be perceived as being more neutral in whatever disputes pop up between the Baltic Barons (the Baltic German elites) and the Latvian and Estonian majorities.

That would make sense in a way, still does not feel entirely as something the Germans would go along with...
It does seem like something that they can live with, though. Also, Sweden would have presumably lost a lot of lives in WWI in this scenario and thus feel entitled to a good reward--possibly more than just Finland. I mean, if the Germans are still going to aim for Brest-Litovsk in the East, the Swedes could naturally ask the Germans to throw them some bones rather than to hog the entire meal for themselves.

Although the Swedish King at the time was married to Wilhelm IIs niece if I remember correctly so there might be something to it
Not Wilhelm's niece, but Wilhelm's first cousin. Wilhelm's father, Kaiser Frederick III, was the brother of Princess Louise of Prussia--who was the mother of Princess Victoria of Baden:

Princess Louise of Prussia - Wikipedia

I just hope that familial relations between her and Kaiser Bill were pretty good. :)
 

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