Territorial Claims of the RoC

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Closed
Jun 2013
6,394
USA
#1
Here is a map of territorial claims of the Republic of China/Taiwan.



The parts in the PRC make sense and the claim over Mongolia and parts of Russia I understand. But could someone explain the reasoning behind the claims in Burma, Afghanistan, Tajikstan, and Pakistan? Did the ROC at one time control those areas (I don't think they did since they were under Russian or British control) or do those claims go back to the Qing Dynasty?
 
Jan 2014
254
Canada
#2
Those claims indeed go back to the Qing dynasty. As the successor of the Qing, the ROC claimed all areas previously under Qing control. Some of the claimed areas were lost in the final years of the Qing, while others were lost shortly after the Qing fell.
 
Jun 2013
6,394
USA
#3
Those claims indeed go back to the Qing dynasty. As the successor of the Qing, the ROC claimed all areas previously under Qing control. Some of the claimed areas were lost in the final years of the Qing, while others were lost shortly after the Qing fell.
When did the Qing control parts of Northern Burma?
 

BenSt

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
4,565
Canada, originally Clwyd, N.Wales
#4
I believe the Chinese had territory in Upper Burma off and on because there are tales of when the Burmese Kings foiught and defeated Chinese regional rulers, and many of the hill tribes around that region are also present in Chinese territory.

The wiki page for 'Chinese people in Burma' says:

The earliest records of Chinese migration into present-day Burma were in the Song and Ming dynasties.[14] In the 18th century, Ming Dynasty princes settled in Kokang (the northern part of present-day Burma). Chinese traders, however, traveled as far as the capital city as well as northern towns on the Irrawaddy such as Bhamo. Some of them stayed and started a Chinese community at Amarapura, and when King Mindon moved his capital to Mandalay in 1859, the Chinese were the only community that decided to stay behind. Many of their descendants intermarried into the host society and remain important and respected citizens of Amarapura.
I do know that there are many Therevada Buddhist communities in Yunnan (even though Mahayana Buddhism was more popular) and the Yunnan indigeous peoples speak languages closely related to Tibetan and Burmese.
 

Naima

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
2,323
Venice
#5
Here is a map of territorial claims of the Republic of China/Taiwan.

The parts in the PRC make sense and the claim over Mongolia and parts of Russia I understand. But could someone explain the reasoning behind the claims in Burma, Afghanistan, Tajikstan, and Pakistan? Did the ROC at one time control those areas (I don't think they did since they were under Russian or British control) or do those claims go back to the Qing Dynasty?
Make Sense?
They have the Same sense as Italians reclaiming the whole Mediterranean and Europe .
 

BenSt

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
4,565
Canada, originally Clwyd, N.Wales
#6
Make Sense?
They have the Same sense as Italians reclaiming the whole Mediterranean and Europe .
I think by 'make sense' Tigerstar is saying he understands why they could make the claim to such territory...as an alternative Government claiming the land.
 
Feb 2011
6,454
#7
Make Sense?
They have the Same sense as Italians reclaiming the whole Mediterranean and Europe .
The Roman empire did not hand over all of its territory to modern Italy, so modern Italy could not claim the territories of the Roman empire. The Qing government, when still alive, officially relinquished all of its territories to the ROC, which is acceptable transfer of territory by law. There's a huge difference here.
 
Aug 2013
1,415
South Korea
#8
The Roman empire did not hand over all of its territory to modern Italy, so modern Italy could not claim the territories of the Roman empire. The Qing government, when still alive, officially relinquished all of its territories to the ROC, which is acceptable transfer of territory by law. There's a huge difference here.
There is the translatio imperii, though...
 
Jan 2014
254
Canada
#9
There is the translatio imperii, though...
There is too much history in between the time of the Roman Empire and modern Italy. It's impossible to describe it so narrowly or in such a linear manner. Translatio Imperii does not apply to the situation between Rome and modern Italy, nor does it even matter or have any relevance legally. You cannot compare the transition of the Qing and ROC to the transition of Rome and Modern Italy.
 
Last edited:
Aug 2013
1,415
South Korea
#10
There is a lot of history in between the time of the Roman Empire and modern Italy. Translatio Imperii does not apply to the situation between Rome and modern Italy, nor does matter or have any relevance legally or politically. You cannot compare the transition from the Qing to ROC and Rome to Modern Italy.
The Translatio Imperii does not end in Italy. I didn't say Italy has to take poseesion of the whole Meditterenean world.

Well, a more appropriate counter-example for the 'Qing-RoC succession' thing would be Goguryo-Unified Shila-Goryo-Joseon-Korean Empire-the Temporary government of the Republic of Korea-RoK.
 
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