The assassination of john f kennedy

#11
1. I'm 38

2. Oswald of course. I can't justify this conclusion directly, but I trust mainstream sources like wikipedia. Yup, that's right. Wikipedia.

3. When I was younger, I was interested in the JFK conspiracy theories. I think I was under the impression at the time that there was some genuine controversy about it, as opposed to just being the fringe opinions of, well, conspiracy theorists. I read some book defending the official story, pretty much proving the case to my satisfaction. This was perhaps 20 years ago, so unfortunately all I remember was how I felt at the time, not any of the actual evidence or arguments. Nothing I've learned since then has caused me to doubt the official story. Moreover, I've learned a lot about how people can and do believe a lot of genuinely weird things (cf. Michael Shermer). So it's not really surprising that there exist JFK conspiracies. Really, it would be surprising if there weren't any JFK conspiracy theories!
 
Oct 2016
1,079
Merryland
#12
50+

mafia

JFK/RFK declared war on mafia and those boys fight back. numerous 'we're going to get him' quotes.
Oswald had indirect ties to mafia (through uncle) as did Guy Bannister.
there is evidence that Oswald was actually an anti-communist recruited by the alphabet agencies (hence the 'defection' to USSR and subsequent return). theory is that Oswald was working to infiltrate pro-Castro groups and was used as a patsy by the mafia through Bannister.

who benefited by JFK's death? mostly the mafia, who were under assault by the DOJ, and wanted to get back into Havana, where they had a lot of assets / income.
 
Sep 2014
836
Texas
#13
Hi i just need anyone (literally anyone) to answer these 3 questions for me :) it would help me out alot.

1. What is your age?
- <15
- 16-18
- 18-25
- 25-35
- 35+

2. In your opinion, who do you believe shot President Kennedy? If you are able to justify your opinion please elaborate.

3. Has anything influenced your opinion? (i.e movies, books, articles etc.) If so please specify
I am 65, was in the fifth grade when Kennedy was shot.

I don;t know who shot Kennedy. My history teacher Mr. Hardin thought the Garrison prosecution in New Orleans was on the right track. This was long before the movie. Mr. Hardin showed us how soap under the arm can make a murder look like a heart attack.

Mr. Hardin my seventh grade history teacher was my biggest influence. He followed that trial in New Orleans religiously and kept us updated on it. Mr. Hardin thought it was a conspiracy, but I was never sure if it was the mob or the Cubans.
 
#14
1. 35+
2. Unclear who did. At least 2 shooters, perhaps Oswald was part of the shooters, perhaps not.
3. Lot's of things, but mostly the House Select Committee on Assassinations report.

The HSCA concluded that more than one shooter had been shooting at the President, hence that there was a conspiracy.
Findings
"C. The Committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that President John F. Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy. The Committee is unable to identify the other gunman or the extent of the conspiracy."

My opinion is mostly influence by the witness testimony of more than 10 doctors and nurses, all whom were present and saw the wounds. The president died front a head shot which entered at the front and left a large exit wound on the back. That is contrary to other findings, including a review by autopsy experts, none of whom (AFAIK) was even present at the time. The HSCA concluded that perhaps the wounds could be the result of two bullets from the back (instead of one from the front), also because one could not make enough damage in line with what was reported. Most of such opposing findings assume an exit wound more to the front side of the head (which is not reported by the medical eyewitnesses).

Also too many shots have been fired for a single person. I disagree with the HSCA who accepted 4 shots but also the magic bullet theory, simply because I do not believe in magic, hence I also do not believe in a zigzagging magic bullet theory. One shot missed and hit the a bridge in front of the car, hence was fired from the back. So somebody was firing from behind, maybe Oswald. At least one bullet was fatal and at least one or two did all other wounds (the magic bullet according to some) for both JFK and Connolly.
From the Zapruder film we also see one bullet entering JFK's throat or chest (back or front) followed by the final fatal head shot (apparently from the front/right-side, with exit wound at the back). That means that at least one other bullet hit Gov. Connolly and JFK, that one may have bounced a bit against bones but would not turn around. That means at least four shots.
The magic bullet: Generally credited to Warren Commission staffer Arlen Specter[2] (later a United States Senator from Pennsylvania), this theory posits that a single bullet, known as "Warren Commission Exhibit 399" (or "CE 399") caused all the wounds to the governor and the non-fatal wounds to the president, which totals up to seven entry/exit wounds in both men." Seven ! That is some bullet. And a very 'interesting' trajectory.

They also concluded that Oswald did shoot. I'm also not sure that I can agree with the latter.
It may be that a group of Anti-Castro Cubans wanted to take revenge for his failure against Castro and the Bay of Pigs debacle (in which case there is a link to Oswald, he gave out communist pamphlets while working from a CIA/Anti-Castro office in New Orleans, so perhaps he wasn't a real communist, but a CIA agent; he had defected to Russia, but he returned and was debriefed by the CIA in The Hague, NL).
It is also possible that JFK was assassinated by Pro-Castro Cubans, because JFK had ordered the CIA to do the the same against Castro (but they failed, several times), simply because for some reason some of the last files to be declassified contains details on Cuban operations, agents and signal intelligence... In this case there is still a link to Oswald, simply because Oswald was a communist ... :)
It is less likely that this was a mob hit, simply because that would not cause so many documents to be classified, IMHO. But who knows.

The investigation was seriously hampered by active suppression of evidence by multiple government agencies and not just by them bungling the investigation. Whether FBI and CIA also ran active interference of the various investigations at the time is unclear. They certainly did later, but that maybe explained by the fact that they would likely want to hide things, including their own earlier errors.
The only one certain piece of evidence for very early interference was the find of the magic bullet (on the gurney upon which JFK was laid), that bullet was in pristine condition, which is not possible after hitting anything, let alone causing 7 entry/exit wounds and shattering & splintering many bones.
Some of these issues became more clear later (admission by CIA, see wiki link above), but many other issues with the investigations were known early on. See the Senate report on that https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/94755_V.pdf .
 
Dec 2011
4,534
Iowa USA
#15
61

Furthermore, Look up Dale Myers exhaustive 3D recreation of the shooting. He matched his animated model to every piece of film of the motorcade so that he could prove the second shooter. Instead- he ended up proving that the ONLY possible firing solution was from the School Book Depository.
Before I retired as an engineer, I had the chance to contribute to/author several proposals for moderate to "big" R&D studies. I am experienced at how to present very technical information to an audience with very low appreciation of the actual risk of these proposals. In the case of a recreation of Dealey Plaza, the producers of the simulation have a perspective, an end that they are selling.

I would caution everyone to not let the innate power of visual processing on our intellect, i.e. "seeing is believing", accept a simulation as the last word.

The Zapruder film's precious four or five frames of the fatal shot, or shots, make me lean towards the theory of the shooter in front of the motorcade. Absolutely Oswald also fired.

EDIT: I'm 52 and not alive at the time of the assassination, but was alive for the murder of Sam Gianacana. Giancana's assassination did come at very convenient moment in case the mafia was somehow involved. He was assassinated just as the Special Committee of the U.S. House was beginning work.
 
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Likes: sailorsam
Dec 2011
4,534
Iowa USA
#17
Mafia guys get murdered by their own all the time, it's a stretch to assume his being killed is tied in to a conspiracy, whatever the timing of it.
True.

Was an afterthought, but was reflecting the "my generation" spirit of the thread, since my aunt and uncle lived in Giancana's home town.
 
Oct 2009
3,452
San Diego
#18
Before I retired as an engineer, I had the chance to contribute to/author several proposals for moderate to "big" R&D studies. I am experienced at how to present very technical information to an audience with very low appreciation of the actual risk of these proposals. In the case of a recreation of Dealey Plaza, the producers of the simulation have a perspective, an end that they are selling.

I would caution everyone to not let the innate power of visual processing on our intellect, i.e. "seeing is believing", accept a simulation as the last word.

The Zapruder film's precious four or five frames of the fatal shot, or shots, make me lean towards the theory of the shooter in front of the motorcade. Absolutely Oswald also fired.

EDIT: I'm 52 and not alive at the time of the assassination, but was alive for the murder of Sam Gianacana. Giancana's assassination did come at very convenient moment in case the mafia was somehow involved. He was assassinated just as the Special Committee of the U.S. House was beginning work.

Number one- you need to look at Myers recreation.
You can find it here:SECRETS OF A HOMICIDE: Introduction

this video except from an ABC special covers only a small portion of the detail.



It is meticulous. He Surveyed Dealy plaza. He carefully modeled every building to accurate dimensions. He recreated camera views from every photographer - including zapruder- duplicating the focal length of each camera. and he then modeled the car with accuracy . He then matched the car in position to every frame of film shot of the event. Until his animation agreed with every camera angle- including still cameras which he was able to determine.

His OBJECTIVE was that he thought it would prove a second shooter. in point of fact it proved the opposite. It proved that the first shot did not hit anyone... but that Connally HEARD it and turned his head and upper body to the right. It proved that the second round passed thru kennedy and hit Connally in the back and wrist and that ALL of those wounds line up perfectly at one point within a cone of error that is centered on the school book depository.
It also proved that no shooter on the grassy knoll NOR behind the fence could possibly have had a shot at kennedy at the moment he was hit in the head.
BTW- using photgrammetry he also proved that the badge man and supposed shot of a muzzle flash from the fence of the grassy knoll was actually a sunlight reflection from a Coke bottle that was sitting on a concrete wall and is visible in other photographs of the area.

Moreover... Zapruders film does NOT show a shot from the front of the the car. 1- there was no angle from which such a shot could have been made without the shooter literally standing in the street or on the sidewalk in full view. 2- a high powered 30 caliber bullet blew kennedy's head open and ejected material out of the Front of his head. Myers carefully identifies both the moment of the second bullet hitting kennedy and connally - and the moment of the 3rd, fatal bullet hitting kennedy.

His recreation is so accurate that it can be used to determine the exact position of every camera that shot a still photo of the event, as well as the exact moment at which each picture must have been taken, to agree with Zapruder's film.

A google search will also uncover a whole raft of folks "debunking" Myers recreation... but they are all in the same league as sites debunking a spherical earth. They lack in any actual demonstrated work proving their claims, and they are all from folks desperate to believe that there were multiple shooters.


The final analysis is this- as far as we know, there could have been a DOZEN shooters there that day- But THREE rounds were actually fired by only ONE of them. And even then, only two out of three rounds hit anything.
The one shooter who hit anything HAD to have fired from the snipers nest in the school book depository, and they fired the carcanno rifle found there.

That is what the Evidence shows. Everything else is just yarns.


The only "conspiracy" that fits the facts is that Oswald MAY HAVE been told Cuba would let him in if he had done something good for the communist cause- by cuban agents in Mexico when he tried to get a visa to go to Cuba.
He tried to assassinate walker- who was rabidly anticommunist.-
And saw a golden opportunity when the motorcade route was published showing kennedy would be turning in front of dealy plaza giving him an excellent firing position.
Johnson suppressed some information in the Warren report- that information was related to the Cuban connection... and LBJ went to his grave convinced that Cuba had orchestrated the assassination in some form as retaliation of the Bay of Pigs and CIA attemtps at assassinating Castro.

LBJ suppressed the info out of fear that the American people would demand an invasion of Cuba in retaliation, and that would lead to a larger, potentially nuclear conflict with the USSR.
( LBJ also suppressed the fact that Nixon had committed treason in getting north vietnam to leave the Paris peace accords.- because he felt that 8 years of Nixon was less damaging to the country than casting doubt on the entire election process and that revealing that info could only seem partisan so close to an election- that is- LBJ has a demonstrated history of suppressing info that he felt would be potentially damaging to the nation )

Of all the various conspiracy theories out there- this is the ONLY scenario for which there is consistent and credible evidence. Although it should be noted that LBJ FEARING that Castro orchestrated the assassination does not mean that they did.
Oswald's attempt on Walker makes it clear that they did nit specify who he should kill in defense of communism- that they just planted a seed with no idea how it would flower.
 

Fiver

Ad Honorem
Jul 2012
3,686
#19
* Age 35+

* We have eyewitnesses, print matches, photographic evidence, ballistic evidence, and written records that show Lee Harvey Oswald killed JD Tippett and JFK. We have no evidence against anyone else.

Oswald acted alone. He could not be a patsy and any competent conspiracy would have not have used multiple shooters, would have used a more mentally stable person than Oswald as their shooter, and would have ensured their shooter was gotten out of the area rather than have any risk of them falling into the hands of the police. No moderately competent shooter would fire from the grassy knoll.

* The HSCA's conclusion that there was a 2nd gunman based on acoustic evidence made me re-examine my views, but the HSCA's conclusion quickly fell apart based on better analysis of the acoustic evidence, which showed the the sounds misidentified as gunshots came about 90 seconds after Kennedy was shot.
 

Fiver

Ad Honorem
Jul 2012
3,686
#20
I am 65, was in the fifth grade when Kennedy was shot.

I don;t know who shot Kennedy. My history teacher Mr. Hardin thought the Garrison prosecution in New Orleans was on the right track. This was long before the movie. Mr. Hardin showed us how soap under the arm can make a murder look like a heart attack.

Mr. Hardin my seventh grade history teacher was my biggest influence. He followed that trial in New Orleans religiously and kept us updated on it. Mr. Hardin thought it was a conspiracy, but I was never sure if it was the mob or the Cubans.
According to Jim Garrison "It was a homosexual thrill-killing" If we count the supposed coverup, Garrison also blamed the Thirteen State Regional Democratic Organization; the governors of Ohio, California, and Nebraska; the Secret Service; NASA; NBC; the Warren Commission; the Dallas Police Department; the phone company; Newsweek, the Washington Post; the Los Angeles Times; CBS; Robert Kennedy; White Russians; the John Birch Society; and Neo-Nazis.
 

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