The assassination of john f kennedy

sculptingman

Ad Honorem
Oct 2009
3,622
San Diego
* Age 35+

* We have eyewitnesses, print matches, photographic evidence, ballistic evidence, and written records that show Lee Harvey Oswald killed JD Tippett and JFK. We have no evidence against anyone else.

Oswald acted alone. He could not be a patsy and any competent conspiracy would have not have used multiple shooters, would have used a more mentally stable person than Oswald as their shooter, and would have ensured their shooter was gotten out of the area rather than have any risk of them falling into the hands of the police. No moderately competent shooter would fire from the grassy knoll.

* The HSCA's conclusion that there was a 2nd gunman based on acoustic evidence made me re-examine my views, but the HSCA's conclusion quickly fell apart based on better analysis of the acoustic evidence, which showed the the sounds misidentified as gunshots came about 90 seconds after Kennedy was shot.
Check out the Myers site I linked to-
SECRETS OF A HOMICIDE: ACOUSTICS - EPIPOLAR GEOMETRIC ANALYSIS OF AMATEUR FILMS RELATED TO ACOUSTICS EVIDENCE IN THE JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION
he also examined the supposed acoustic evidence and his analysis is extremely well footnoted. The acoustic analysis was based upon the assumption that the recording was from a specific motorcycle cops radio that was assumed to have been in a specific location in dealy plaza. Myers reconstruction of the motorcade from multiple available films shot from several locations. Myers was able to prove that the motorcycle in question could not possibly have been within the circle the acoustic analysts had specified as the location the Microphone had to be in for their analysis to hold up.
Basically, the motorcycle was a full block away from that circle when the shots actually occurred.

then, of course, later, it was determined that the audio recording was not only from a time period that was after the shooting... but was a recording from an entirely different officers motorcycle who was nowhere near Dealy plaza the whole day.


Stone's portrayal of garrison was an outright lie. The guy was a shallow opportunist trying to grab some notoriety for his own career ambitions.
 
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Sep 2014
941
Texas
According to Jim Garrison "It was a homosexual thrill-killing" If we count the supposed coverup, Garrison also blamed the Thirteen State Regional Democratic Organization; the governors of Ohio, California, and Nebraska; the Secret Service; NASA; NBC; the Warren Commission; the Dallas Police Department; the phone company; Newsweek, the Washington Post; the Los Angeles Times; CBS; Robert Kennedy; White Russians; the John Birch Society; and Neo-Nazis.
And Jackie thought it was LBJ. So many possibilities. Dallas was a booming little town of corruption back then.
 

Fiver

Ad Honorem
Jul 2012
3,765
The HSCA concluded that more than one shooter had been shooting at the President, hence that there was a conspiracy.
This conclusion was based on now debunked interpretations of acoustic evidence.

I disagree with the HSCA who accepted 4 shots but also the magic bullet theory, simply because I do not believe in magic, hence I also do not believe in a zigzagging magic bullet theory.
The single bullet theory does not require the bullet to zigzag.



From the Zapruder film we also see one bullet entering JFK's throat or chest (back or front) followed by the final fatal head shot (apparently from the front/right-side, with exit wound at the back).
The Zapruder film clearly shows the fatal headshot exited the front of JFK's head.



The magic bullet: Generally credited to Warren Commission staffer Arlen Specter[2] (later a United States Senator from Pennsylvania), this theory posits that a single bullet, known as "Warren Commission Exhibit 399" (or "CE 399") caused all the wounds to the governor and the non-fatal wounds to the president, which totals up to seven entry/exit wounds in both men." Seven ! That is some bullet.
Here's an example of two men wounded by a single bullet. Here's another example of two men wounded by a single bullet. Here's an example of two men killed with one bullet. Here's another example of two men killed by a single bullet. Here's an example of two men killed and a third wounded by a single bullet.

The only one certain piece of evidence for very early interference was the find of the magic bullet (on the gurney upon which JFK was laid), that bullet was in pristine condition, which is not possible after hitting anything, let alone causing 7 entry/exit wounds and shattering & splintering many bones.
Bullet CE399 was not pristine.
 
Jan 2018
50
NL
This conclusion was based on now debunked interpretations of acoustic evidence.
That was just one of the things. Which sadly became a main part of the conclusion for some. Other evidence, such as the various statements by medical professional witnesses was more important.
And the debunking was more an expression of opinion by FBI, not actual evidence AFAIK.

The Zapruder film clearly shows the fatal headshot exited the front of JFK's head..
His head snaps backwards. Here is a stabilized version of the film.
A version of the jittery original is here:
, check starting at the 0:50 mark.
Clearly the head snaps back after impact of the bullet.

The head snapping back has been explained in 3 ways:
- bullet from the back + neuromuscular reaction [debunked, it is neither of the two possible reactions: “decorticate” or “decerebrate” ]
- bullet from the back + jet effect, a later theory [also debunked, calculations miss the initial impact, i.e. the majority of energy is at initial impact and should fling head violently forward, if hit from the back, not backward]
- bullet from the front
More on that, for example, here: Kennedys And King - NOVA’s Cold Case: JFK - the Junk Science Behind PBS’s Recent Foray into the Crime of the Century


Bullet CE399 was not pristine. .
That was the base view, this is the other view:

That is too little damage. Looks rather pristine to me, this bullet is supposed to have bounced against several bones & fractured them. Even if the seating was such that it did not need to zig-zag, then it still fractures many bones.
And for example the back-wound of the governor was too large (3 cm) for an entry wound, unless the bullet was already shredded into shrapnel, which it apparently wasn't ... how does that work?
Ergo the logical suspicion was that this is not the actual bullet, but somebody decided to 'help' the investigation by putting this one on a gurney in the hospital...
 
Jan 2017
1,309
Durham
By all accounts the bullet could have followed that trajectory given it was an old Italian WW1 rifle. I just have one question for the Americans who know much more about this than I do: was Oswald a good enough marksman?
 
Jan 2018
50
NL
By all accounts the bullet could have followed that trajectory given it was an old Italian WW1 rifle. I just have one question for the Americans who know much more about this than I do: was Oswald a good enough marksman?
Not very good apparently.

JFK - How good of a shot was Oswald
"
Colonel Allison Folsom interpreted the results for the Warren Commission:

The Marine Corps consider that any reasonable application of the instructions given to Marines should permit them to become qualified at least as a marksman. To become qualified as a sharpshooter, the Marine Corps is of the opinion that most Marines with a reasonable amount of adaptability to weapons firing can become so qualified. Consequently, a low marksman qualification indicates a rather poor “shot” and a sharpshooter qualification indicates a fairly good “shot”.
(Warren Commission Hearings, vol.19, pp.17f)
To this date, as far as I know, no one has ever duplicated the marksmanship attributed to Oswald.
Former Marines recall that Oswald was a poor shot. Nelson Delgado said Oswald on the firing line was “a pretty big joke” because he got a lot of complete misses. Delgado told researcher Mark Lane that Oswald just was not that interested in guns. He was always being penalized for not taking proper care of his rifle or cleaning it regularly.
Sherman Cooley, another Marine, said “If I had to pick one man in the entire United States to shoot me, I’d pick Oswald. I saw the man shoot. There’s no way he could have ever learned to shoot well enough to do what they accused him of doing in Dallas.”
"
 
Jan 2017
1,309
Durham
Not very good apparently.

JFK - How good of a shot was Oswald
"
Colonel Allison Folsom interpreted the results for the Warren Commission:

The Marine Corps consider that any reasonable application of the instructions given to Marines should permit them to become qualified at least as a marksman. To become qualified as a sharpshooter, the Marine Corps is of the opinion that most Marines with a reasonable amount of adaptability to weapons firing can become so qualified. Consequently, a low marksman qualification indicates a rather poor “shot” and a sharpshooter qualification indicates a fairly good “shot”.
To this date, as far as I know, no one has ever duplicated the marksmanship attributed to Oswald.
Former Marines recall that Oswald was a poor shot. Nelson Delgado said Oswald on the firing line was “a pretty big joke” because he got a lot of complete misses. Delgado told researcher Mark Lane that Oswald just was not that interested in guns. He was always being penalized for not taking proper care of his rifle or cleaning it regularly.
Sherman Cooley, another Marine, said “If I had to pick one man in the entire United States to shoot me, I’d pick Oswald. I saw the man shoot. There’s no way he could have ever learned to shoot well enough to do what they accused him of doing in Dallas.”
"
Thanks for the information.

I'm familiar with the above statements, and wondered if there's another side to the argument, a contradictory one that supports the notion that Oswald was capable of that shot.
 
Jan 2018
50
NL
I'm familiar with the above statements, and wondered if there's another side to the argument, a contradictory one that supports the notion that Oswald was capable of that shot.
Well he achieved a 212 score once, after a two week training course in 1956. That means he qualified as sharpshooter (which is between the minimum, marksman, and the maximum, expert).
He scored 191 a few years later, in 1959, which means that he just qualified at the lowest level (marksman, minimum was 190).

[wiki] Oswald enlisted in the United States Marine Corps on October 24, 1956, just after his seventeenth birthday. He was underage and his brother Robert, Jr. was required to sign the forms as his legal guardian.
...
Like all marines, Oswald was trained and tested in shooting. In December 1956, he scored 212, which was slightly above the requirements for the designation of sharpshooter.[21] In May 1959 he scored 191, which reduced his rating to marksman.[21][39]


So while his qualification was downgraded in 1959, he had been capable earlier of shooting quite a bit better at the start of his USMC career. Still nowhere near enough to be an expert shot.
He wasn't in any post that required very active practice, he worked in aircraft control for U2 spy planes in Japan in 1957 and later radar in El Toro, California. So he would be behind the controls of complex machines.
That may mean that he would merely keep practicing just enough to qualify for the minimum. Also in 1958/1959 he studied Russian, first apparently by himself, later he got a 'bit' of help from the army, so again he would have less time than normal to practice his shooting skills. So, who knows, maybe all he lacked was a bit of practice. But that is the best that I can do.


Things you never knew about Lee Harvey Oswald - Shadowproof
  • When he was 18 he had secret security clearance while he worked in aircraft control at the naval air base in Atsugi, Japan. Atsugi was a top secret base where the U.S. controlled U2 spy plane flights. His knowledge included “all radio frequencies for all squadrons, all tactical call signs, the relative strengths of all squadrons, number and type of aircraft in a squadron…the authentication code for entering and exiting [the air defense zone]…the range of surrounding units’ radio and radar”, according to his commander, Marine Lt. John Donovan, who testified to these facts before the Warren Commission.
  • The next year, at age 19, he was stationed at El Toro air station in California, with security clearance to work radar.
  • While there he became obsessed with Russia, talking often about Soviet communism, playing Russian language records loudly in his barracks, addressing his fellow Marines as “comrade” and otherwise speaking Russian. He read Russian books and proclaimed Soviet-style communism as the “best system in the world”. This was pretty unusual behavior to be practicing while in the U.S. Marine Corps in 1958, and such acts in any other corpsman it would have lead to an investigation followed by stern treatment. Despite all of this, he kept his security clearance, continuing to log radar records of flights coming and going.
  • In February 1959 he failed a Marine Corps proficiency test in Russian. Six months later he was fluent in the language. Only later in 1974 did it become known through a Warren Commission document that he had attended the U.S. Army Monterey School of Languages. (Note: the only way for a service person to attend that program was to be assigned to do so by the military for very specific reasons.)