The book of Ezéchiel

Kirialax

Ad Honorem
Dec 2009
4,852
Blachernai
#11
Among the Christians, Virgin Mary was recurrently seen in several battles, but often Saints, Angels and Archangels also made their appearances. Curiously these appearances seem always leading to victory, even if the foes could have exactly the same religion.
Makes you wonder if some generals didn't keep a St Theodore or St Demetrios costume around for important moments...

Yes ....
Thank you for the translations ....but it's true that I'm quite surprised by the number of translations ...

But basically it’s the same thing: the margin of error on the translation must be of the same order as the one on the description .
Either way, he saw something very weird, which he took the trouble to describe, and he never served the story any further
so at first ... he is sincere in what he describes even if he has completely mistaken for the rest .
But what could it have seen?
Wouldn't it make more sense to view the curious description of objects as a metaphor or coded language that contemporaries would have understood? Why is this so different from the beasts of Daniel 2, 7, and 8 which is almost certainly an exilic Jewish commentary on the politics of the Babylon and Mede and Persian empires? Or John's 'Revelation' which uses Danielic imagery to comment on Jews and Christians under Roman subjugation? Here's the thing: copying texts is time-consuming and expensive. What we don't have from the ancient world are many documentary texts or many nonsense texts. These didn't survive because they lacked meaning for contemporary or later audiences: why copy out that magical papyrus or that list of receipts from two centuries before? If Ezekiel's or Daniel's audiences thought these texts were just the rantings of a lunatic or about space ships (a concept they were unlikely to have comprehended) or impossible creatues then it's unlikely they'd have bothered to keep those texts, and their descendants wouldn't even be aware of them and so couldn't copy them. Or, these strange visions made perfect sense to a group of people "in the know" in a particular historical context and meant something to them and that's why we have them today. This means hunting for space ships is pointless and it would be more profitable to understand what is going in Babylon around Ezekiel's time.
 
Likes: specul8

specul8

Ad Honorem
Oct 2016
3,354
Australia
#12
Do you mean " But what could HE have seen ? "

It is described as a vision .

" Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, on the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the River Chebar, that the heavens were opened and I saw visions of God. "


Now, that implies looking into what 'seeing a vision' means . Usually it implies 'symbolism' and 'mental metaphor', delivering a visual image from the unconscious to the conscious mind .


If you meant "What could it have seen ? " - meaning the 'eyes' on the wheels that go in every direction , then the Biblical explanation is - God goes everywhere and sees everything , as this was a vision of God .

You could have selected better verses to present your case :





4 I looked up and saw a windstorm coming from the north. Lightning was flashing from a huge cloud, and the sky around it was glowing. Where the lightning was flashing, something shone like bronze. 5 At the center of the storm I saw what looked like four living creatures in human form, ...
13 Among[c] the creatures there was something that looked like a blazing torch, constantly moving. The fire would blaze up and shoot out flashes of lightning. 14 The creatures themselves darted back and forth with the speed of lightning.


15 As I was looking at the four creatures I saw four wheels touching the ground, ... if the creatures rose up from the earth, so did the wheels. 20 The creatures went wherever they wished, and the wheels did exactly what the creatures did, because the creatures controlled them. ....

22 Above the heads of the creatures there was something that looked like a dome made of dazzling crystal. 23 There under the dome stood the creatures,... 24 I heard the noise their wings made in flight; it sounded like the roar of the sea ...

;)
 

specul8

Ad Honorem
Oct 2016
3,354
Australia
#13
I read an interesting experiment ; an 'unusual experience' was related, carefully, word for word to people of a different cultures, they where all pleased that it confirmed what they knew . One was sure it was an account of a meeting with the fairie realm. Another thought it typical of visions of the Virgin Mary. Others where confident that it fulfilled all criteria of 'close encounter of third kind (ie, with 'aliens') . The people the story originally came from (tribal Africans ) where very happy about it as their ancestors had obviously come to visit them .

If I had Ezekial's vision .... I would be checking what type of mushrooms I had for breakfast .

The cultural template within the culture experiencing the vision is a very important factor when giving such experiences meaning .
 
Mar 2017
870
Colorado
#15
Basically we have creatures with four wheels on the ground . Either the creatures have four faces , or 4 creatures have a wheel before their faces.

Sounds more like a chariot than any 'alien ship' .

For a better analysis , I suggest incorporating more of Ezekial's ...... VISION .
Thank you! This was wonderful! I appreciate all the time it took you to paste the text & links.


What I like about it is that it's exactly the kind of thing I stumble into when I try to translate Latin & Greek sources.
"That's the number four ... and a face ... or faces ... and a rim? ... maybe wheel? ... or is it four wheels? ... or four faces?"

I'm delighted that "real" scholars have the same problems.



I did like Von Danniken in the 60's. I liked his "why do gods need machines to get around?" ... but this does force you to translate for a predefined end ... "machine"
 
Mar 2017
870
Colorado
#16
And I still apologize for my English ...
Don't apologize for your English on Historum. Historum encourages members from the entire world, and I am very lucky English is its language.

I only speak one language. You have at least two to reference for your sources & opinions.
 

Ficino

Ad Honorem
Apr 2012
6,941
Romania
#17
Hello everybody,

I would remain "serious"....

How do you interpret the book of Ezechiel 1-15?
Personally... apart from an alien ship... I don’t see ...
Now ... I am not an expert in the interpretation of ancient texts ...
If anyone has a "other" interpretation than an alien visitor... I would be very happy ...

Thank you .
It is a symbolic vision of celestial beings, see e.g. Dionysius the Areopagite, Works (1899) vol. 2. p.1-66. The Celestial Hierarchy (the whole Chapter XV).
 
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