The Catholic Church invented the university

Jul 2016
885
Europe/Switzerland/Ticino
The Catholic Church invented the university -Bologna Padua Paris and many others..Cambridge University was established in 1209 by Christian leaders. Oxford University was established by various religious orders.
Saint Andrews, Scotland’s oldest university, was founded principally for the teaching and study of theology.

And now the kids and teenagers believe that the Catholic Church was/is against the science..

Propaganda?
 
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pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,518
The Catholic Church invented the university -Bologna Padua Paris and many others..
hardly, the concept of a place people come to gather to learn and teach is hardly unique or the creation of the catholic church.
 
Jul 2016
885
Europe/Switzerland/Ticino
hardly, the concept of a place people come to gather to learn and teach is hardly unique or the creation of the catholic church.


Do you know a very ancient University (older than Bologna or Paris or Oxford .. all of them established by various religious orders ) not "established" by the Catholic Church ?
 
Apr 2015
627
Paris
The Catholic Church invented the university -Bologna Padua Paris and many others..
No, it did not. As its name implies, an university is an association or a corporation of scholars and students. While some universities came from cathedral schools (Paris), others (Bologna) came from lay schools (Bologna), others came from scission in older universities (Padua), others were royal creations. In a second time, the two medieval authorities with pretenses to rule the entire world - the pope and the emperor - recognized the universities by granting them privileges of independence and most crucially of allowing their graduates to teach everywhere (jus ubique docendi). Some universities never bothered to ask for these (Padua again), some went with their imperial privileges only.

Do you know a very ancient University (older than Bologna or Paris or Oxford .. all of them established by various religious orders ) not "established" by the Catholic Church ?
What orders did found these ones ? I am very curious to see your sources.
 
Jan 2015
1,309
meo
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Oct 2016
238
GB
The oldest existing, and continually operating educational institution in the world is the University of Karueein, founded in 859 AD in Fez, Morocco.*Not Catholic then.

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Larrey

Ad Honorem
Sep 2011
5,769
Do you know a very ancient University (older than Bologna or Paris or Oxford .. all of them established by various religious orders ) not "established" by the Catholic Church ?
Salerno was established in the 9th c., Bologna in the 11th. Both started as guild structures, formed by self-forming networks of the members granted official recognition by the local authorities — which happened to be both ecclesiastic and secular, while the members happened to be scholastic. So yes, there was a connection with Mother Church — just not in the sense that it took the initiative or directly controlled the guilds. The guild charter ordered the inner self-governance of the guilds. Church and state just gave formal recognition to initiatives by these groups.

That's important, because the Church was NOT monolithic in THAT administrative sense. The scholastic guilds that made up the universities DID "shop around" to get the best deal from a local church authority, and could switch if need be, to get the most freedom from authority and interference.

The Italian universities in particular were guilds of scholars that navigated politically between church authority, local city authority, and imperial authority to maximize its self-government. Considering the complexity of medieval power structures in Italy, they had PLENTY of room for maneuver.

Other than that the first downright secular university established directly by a state, with no Church involvement, would be Naples in 1225. There the Sicilian state DID control pretty much everything, but Rome had no say otoh.
 
Aug 2015
870
wish it was Constantinople
pushagiri

platonic academy

nalanda

taxila

academy of gundashipir

taixue

all of these were essential universities that we MUCH older than the christian ones
 
Jul 2016
885
Europe/Switzerland/Ticino
No, it did not. As its name implies, an university is an association or a corporation of scholars and students. While some universities came from cathedral schools (Paris), others (Bologna) came from lay schools (Bologna), others came from scission in older universities (Padua), others were royal creations. In a second time, the two medieval authorities with pretenses to rule the entire world - the pope and the emperor - recognized the universities by granting them privileges of independence and most crucially of allowing their graduates to teach everywhere (jus ubique docendi). Some universities never bothered to ask for these (Padua again), some went with their imperial privileges only.



What orders did found these ones ? I am very curious to see your sources.

Bologna was part of the Papal States.
Padua and Paris were not part of Papal state.
And the Catholic Church encouraged the constitution of the FIRST MODERN UNIVERSITY..
 
Jul 2016
885
Europe/Switzerland/Ticino
pushagiri

platonic academy

nalanda

taxila

academy of gundashipir

taixue

all of these were essential universities that we MUCH older than the christian ones

Can you show a written documents of the above University .. at least 900 years old ?