the diagnosis of Gender Disphoria

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Naomasa298

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Apr 2010
35,374
T'Republic of Yorkshire
Does one have to sing well to be a judge of good singing?
Actually, yes. Someone who can sing, as opposed to someone who can simply hold a tune, can recognise things a good singer that other can;t, and are in a position to make a proper criticism. Most would say ABBA;s singers were good, but if you're been trained to sing, you can identify WHY they're good - excellent voice control, very good shapes of their vowels (hence why they don't really have accents when they sing despite speaking with Swedish accents) etc.
 

Linschoten

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Aug 2010
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@Naomasa, he's had a few youtube conversations with Molyneux, e.g.


Although I haven't watched any of them through because I find Molyneux unappealing, I've watched enough of this one to know that they aren't plotting a white supremacist uprising.

The notion that Peterson would have any sympathy at all with white supremacism or the alt-right is utterly absurd because he is a liberal individualist who hates any kind of identitarian politics. Molyneux on the other hand is distinctly iffy, a glint comes into his eye when he talks about IQ and race for instance, but he has openly complained of being unable to get a rise out of Peterson on the issue.
 
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Naomasa298

Forum Staff
Apr 2010
35,374
T'Republic of Yorkshire
He's had a few youtube conversations with him, e.g.


Although I haven't watched any of them through because I find Molyneux unappealing, I've watched enough of this one to know that they aren't plotting a white supremacist uprising.
I don't know anything about either of them.

I was just clarifying your sentence. :)
 

Linschoten

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Aug 2010
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I've added a bit. Life is too short to follow all of these people, I find Peterson interesting on certain subjects, but have only looked briefly at some of Molyneux's stuff because people have attacked Peterson for talking with him. I think he was unwise to do so for reasons already stated, but in general I'm happy that anyone should debate with anyone.
 

Fox

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Oct 2011
3,937
Korea
here's a guy explaining his verison of why Peterson is wrong.

Thank you for posting this. I can see why you'd take issue with his position on truth as it's described. The fellow in the video is a bit unfair to him -- for example, I could immediately see how Dr. Petersen could simultaneously take the position he purportedly does on the sexes, and the position he purportedly does on religion, without being disingenuous or inconsistent, simply because he likely believes his position on both is justified by "Petersen Truth," which in the former case also incidentally coincides with "Realism Truth" -- but overall seemed to have a point. It does seem to me that Dr. Petersen's position would be a lot more defensible and reasonable if instead of trying to essentially redefine truth, he just talked about his "Petersen Truth" as an independent means of forming judgments and conclusions which was not strictly based upon the truth. Based purely on this video -- because that's really about all I've seen of his position on this matter, or almost any matter really -- it seems like he's got a moderately solid point wrapped in a problematic approach which distorts it.
 
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Linschoten

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Aug 2010
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This is perhaps a better discussion:


If he is often far from clear in what he says, I think it is because he is wrestling with very difficult problems.
 

pugsville

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Oct 2010
9,654
Thank you for posting this. I can see why you'd take issue with his position on truth as it's described. The fellow in the video is a bit unfair to him -- for example, I could immediately see how Dr. Petersen could simultaneously take the position he purportedly does on the sexes, and the position he purportedly does on religion, without being disingenuous or inconsistent, simply because he likely believes his position on both is justified by "Petersen Truth," which in the former case also incidentally coincides with "Realism Truth" -- but overall seemed to have a point. It does seem to me that Dr. Petersen's position would be a lot more defensible and reasonable if instead of trying to essentially redefine truth, he just talked about his "Petersen Truth" as an independent means of forming judgments and conclusions which was not strictly based upon the truth. Based purely on this video -- because that's really about all I've seen of his position on this matter, or almost any matter really -- it seems like he's got a moderately solid point wrapped in a problematic approach which distorts it.
Calling it truth is essentai error. Saying teh objective truth depends of utility it to degrade the concept of objetcive truth to uselessness as concept.

His ability to wrap poor ideas in a lot pseudo scientific psycho babale is quite large and obscures the essential emptiness of almost veyerthing he says,

Other dumb stuff he says is that ALL moralisty comes from God, that without Christianity there is just murder, and anyone who oppposes murder must in their darkest heart be christain no matter what they actually profess on tthe matter.. Athesist = murdere. r Insulting clap trap of the lowest water.

But his fans just lap it up,.
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,654
Actually, yes. Someone who can sing, as opposed to someone who can simply hold a tune, can recognise things a good singer that other can;t, and are in a position to make a proper criticism. Most would say ABBA;s singers were good, but if you're been trained to sing, you can identify WHY they're good - excellent voice control, very good shapes of their vowels (hence why they don't really have accents when they sing despite speaking with Swedish accents) etc.
different argument you arguing about knowledge not ability,

So only good singers can rigtfully say that this singing sounds terrible?
 

Linschoten

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Aug 2010
16,214
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Oh yes far from clear in what he says. because he does so badly,.
I'm amazed at your powers of repartee. You will become qualified to lecture other people about lack of clarity when you learn to write a single coherent sentence.
 
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