The disappearance of the classical hoplite

Apr 2010
16,748
Slovakia
#11
Here are some examples of later helmet stiles used from about Peloponesian war and on (replacing so called Corinthian helmet on the picture).


Chalcidian:



Phrygian (in shape of traditional cap):



Attic:



Beotian (made after traditional cap or hat):



Thracian:



And of course so called Pilos helmet Spartans adopted (also in shape of traditional cap):

 
Last edited:
Apr 2010
16,748
Slovakia
#12
I am no longer 100 % convinced that it was actually abandoned in the first place.
For what reason? There are actual depictions of Greek hoplites (Spartans in particular) without any body armour but helmet.

In fact this process might have started already earlier during Persian wars. I do not remember where I have it from but Spartans at Termophilae supposedly fought without body armour. Most of them at last.
 

okamido

Forum Staff
Jun 2009
29,885
land of Califia
#13
For what reason? There are actual depictions of Greek hoplites (Spartans in particular) without any body armour but helmet.
Yes, they are nude on pottery, which is simply an example of heroic nudity in art. The only thing we really have, and what we primarily use for the depiction of a Peloponnesian Spartan of this period, are two-three stelae that depicts Peloponnesians, one of which is known to be a Tegean.

Now remember that I am not saying that there was not an abandonment of all types of armour during this period, only that I am not 100 % convinced of it anymore.

In fact this process might have started already earlier during Persian wars. I do not remember where I have it from but Spartans at Termophilae supposedly fought without body armour. Most of them at last.
I have a hard time accepting this. If you could remember your source, I would greatly appreciate it.
 

tornada

Ad Honoris
Mar 2013
15,385
India
#16
well most hoplites had to pay for their equipment. So if you could the same deal with cheaper cost you'd take it. After the persian war, and during the pelop war the greek economy started collapsing due to too much intercine warfare. That meant that the average hoplites ability to outfit himself would become less and less. Hence the lack of armour. Alexander and Phillip had a professional army and so they paid for the armour
 

okamido

Forum Staff
Jun 2009
29,885
land of Califia
#18
A Spartan 'militia' also inflicted a defeat on the Goths in the 4th Century CE.
Yah, I don't think that really happened. The only 'evidence' for that is a blurb on Wiki that cannot be substantiated by any other source...even the source that is given in the Wiki footnote: The Military Engineer, By Society of American Military Engineers.

I would disregard that, Salah.
 

Salah

Forum Staff
Oct 2009
23,284
Maryland
#19
Yah, I don't think that really happened. The only 'evidence' for that is a blurb on Wiki that cannot be substantiated by any other source...even the source that is given in the Wiki footnote: The Military Engineer, By Society of American Military Engineers.

I would disregard that, Salah.
Could have sworn I read it elsewhere - but likely, I am confusing it with Caracalla's phalanx experiment. I do believe Sparta was one of the recruiting grounds for his 'Pitanate and Macedonian Phalanx'.
 

okamido

Forum Staff
Jun 2009
29,885
land of Califia
#20
Could have sworn I read it elsewhere - but likely, I am confusing it with Caracalla's phalanx experiment.
I have hunted all over for this and it has come up several times on Historum. I have been unable to find anything on it, and completely convinced that it was put there by a laconophile with no backing. Even the Wiki entry has been modified to state that, "Supposedly", this happened.


I do believe Sparta was one of the recruiting grounds for his 'Pitanate and Macedonian Phalanx'.
Most definately. Good old Marcus Aurelius Alexys.
 

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