The European Cradle, Danube Valley Civilization

Dec 2013
473
Colentina
#1
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnADnlrwiYA]The Old Europe: The Danube Valley Civilization, 5000-3500 BC - YouTube[/ame]

The Old Europe:The Danube Valley Civilization, 5000-3500 BC▕ The European Cradle - The First High Culture in The World Originated in The Balkans, Europe
Danube Valley Civilization script is the oldest writing in the world https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Iq4Qbd0wpw... Before the glory that was Greece and Rome, even before the first cities of Mesopotamia or temples along the Nile, there lived in the Lower Danube Valley and the Balkan foothills people who were ahead of their time in art, technology and long-distance trade. Old Europe was among the most culturally rich regions in the world. Its inhabitants lived in prosperous agricultural towns. The ubiquitous goddess figurines found in their houses and shrines have triggered intense debates about women's roles.
The people of this region founded new settlements in the Danube Valley. Scientists call this society Danube Civilization. This people were the first in history who used copper tools, they lived in two-storied houses and sat on chairs, while the rest of the world was stuck in the middle of the Stone Age. And they invented writing. oldest copper mines of the world, bake bread using ovens that are 8000 years old.This culture lived 2000 years in peace as an equivalent society. But then, they discovered gold. This marks the end of the Danube Civilization. Warriors from the russian steppe extinguished this society 6000 years ago. The era of money and power began.The heart of Old Europe was in the lower Danube valley, in contemporary Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia and Moldova. Old European coppersmiths were the most advanced metal artisans in the world. Their intense interest in acquiring copper, Aegean shells, and other rare valuables gave rise to far-reaching trading networks. In their graves, the bodies of Old European chieftains were adorned with pounds of gold and copper ornaments. Their funerals were without parallel in the Near East or Egypt.

An unparalleled introduction to Old Europe's cultural, technological, and artistic legacy,For 1,500 years, starting earlier than 5000 B.C., they farmed and built sizable towns, a few with as many as 10,000 dwellings. They mastered large-scale copper smelting, the new technology of the age. Their graves held an impressive array of exquisite headdresses and necklaces and, in one cemetery, the earliest major assemblage of gold artifacts to be found anywhere in the world.

The striking designs of their pottery speak of the refinement of the culture's visual language. Until recent discoveries, the most intriguing artifacts were the ubiquitous terracotta "goddess" figurines, originally interpreted as evidence of the spiritual and political power of women in society.
At its peak, around 4500 B.C., said David W. Anthony, the exhibition's guest curator, "Old Europe was among the most sophisticated and technologically advanced places in the world" and was developing "many of the political, technological and ideological signs of civilization." Admiring the colorful ceramics, Dr. Bagnall, a specialist in Egyptian archaeology, remarked that at the time "Egyptians were certainly not making pottery like this.
The story now emerging is of pioneer farmers after about 6200 B.C. moving north into Old Europe from Greece and Macedonia, bringing wheat and barley seeds and domesticated cattle and sheep. They established colonies along the Black Sea and in the river plains and hills, and these evolved into related but somewhat distinct cultures, archaeologists have learned. The settlements maintained close contact through networks of trade in copper and gold and also shared patterns of ceramics.

The Spondylus shell from the Aegean Sea was a special item of trade. Perhaps the shells, used in pendants and bracelets, were symbols of their Aegean ancestors. Other scholars view such long-distance acquisitions as being motivated in part by ideology in which goods are not commodities in the modern sense but rather "valuables," symbols of status and recognition
 
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Mar 2012
2,347
#2
Weren't these a different people than modern Europeans? Weren't they wiped out by Indo-Europeans?

In any event, was there any cultural continuity to say that this was the "cradle?"

I think Minoan is a better place to look for the European cradle.

Could be wrong though. I am no expert.
 
Feb 2012
287
South Carolina, USA
#3
You say "The story now emerging is of pioneer farmers , after about 6200 BC, moving north into old Europe from Greece and Macedonia". Who is telling this story? From what I have read, I don't believe this to be true.

I put up a post over a year ago about the village at Varna. Dating to 4500 BC. There was also a Nat Geo program about Varna about a week ago. The oldest gold treasure was discovered in Varna consisting of artifacts dating to 4,750 BC. Archeologists believe this may be the cradle of European man. Genetic scientists have traced the origin of the blond haired, blue eyed people to this area along the northwest coast of the Black sea. The mutations that caused these changes occurred anywhere from 6000 to 10,000 BC. This discovery was reported in Science news and at a conference of the physical anthropologists. The scientists also stated these people were undergoing rapid evolutionary change. They were very different than the Mediterranean peoples. It is still unknown where their original point of origin is or who they evolved from. Varna is a town in Bulgaria along the coast of the Black sea where the Danube river empties into the Black sea. This is the old Roman Thrace province.

The first of these peoples to migrate went to the east. The Seres were a mysterious tribe of central Asia, placed by most ancient authorities just east of the Scythians. Their physical description has baffled many ethnologists. Pliny described them as having blondish hair, with blue eyes.
The Alani were the last of the Scythian tribes. They were described by Roman historian Marcellinus as having great stature and beauty. Their hair is somewhat yellow, eyes are blue or green and terribly fierce.
The Celtic peoples are the first of these peoples to move north into the northern European plain.
 
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Midas

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
4,129
Scandinavia, Balkans, Anatolia, Hatay
#4
Weren't these a different people than modern Europeans? Weren't they wiped out by Indo-Europeans?

In any event, was there any cultural continuity to say that this was the "cradle?"

I think Minoan is a better place to look for the European cradle.

Could be wrong though. I am no expert.
Generally, the Balkan Indo-Europeans didn't wipe out much. However, the neolithic Balkanians are very different than the other Europeans of that time.

In any case, Minoan, although in Europe, had their genetic origins in Anatolia and the first people that spread farming into Europe.
 
Mar 2012
2,347
#5
Generally, the Balkan Indo-Europeans didn't wipe out much. However, the neolithic Balkanians are very different than the other Europeans of that time.

In any case, Minoan, although in Europe, had their genetic origins in Anatolia and the first people that spread farming into Europe.
I would never dream of challenging your superior knowledge, but what do you make of this article:

Mysterious Minoans Were European, DNA Finds : Discovery News

Also, if the Indo-Europeans didn't wipe them out, then are modern eastern Europeans still related to them?
 
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Midas

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
4,129
Scandinavia, Balkans, Anatolia, Hatay
#7
I would never dream of challenging your superior knowledge, but what do you make of this article:

Mysterious Minoans Were European, DNA Finds : Discovery News

Also, if the Indo-Europeans didn't wipe them out, then are modern eastern Europeans still related to them?
I know nothing more than what I read :)
Now, I am very well aware of the recent DNA tests done on Lasithi Minoans. The test itself originally shows that the inhabitants of the graves are very close to the current inhabitants of that region. What is typical for Cretans (excluding eastern Crete) is the high frequencies of this haplogroup. Sure, it exists all over Europe but is it typical European? Except from Greece, Italy, Albania and Bulgaria, it does hardy exceed 6-10%. You don't call that typical European... You rather call it south-eastern European, Anatolian, Caucasian (region) and northern Mesopotamian. Not typical European...

The people who brought this haplogroup in Europe came to Crete and the Greek mainland from central Anatolia, 9000YBP. They did spread all over Europe (including Scandinavia, having 3%) but they never made a strong presence above the numbers I mentioned.

So, If you ask me the claim is exhagerated if not Eurocentric. Maybe they presented it like that for attention. I dunno, but I found it quite riddiculus.

 
Nov 2013
162
porcios
#8
many anatolians were actually europeans fleeing climatic and geographical catastrophe so technically the anatolian neolithics were in large part just europeans going home.





there have been a series of exciting international workshops concerning the middle danube lately. some very strange terms are flying around among normal sane employed scientists because very strange things are popping out of the ground... in addition to the staggering amount of previously recovered material the rest of the world had never had access to before.

pooh pooh the danube at your peril.


cheers
nic
 
Mar 2012
2,347
#9
I know nothing more than what I read :)
Now, I am very well aware of the recent DNA tests done on Lasithi Minoans. The test itself originally shows that the inhabitants of the graves are very close to the current inhabitants of that region. What is typical for Cretans (excluding eastern Crete) is the high frequencies of this haplogroup. Sure, it exists all over Europe but is it typical European? Except from Greece, Italy, Albania and Bulgaria, it does hardy exceed 6-10%. You don't call that typical European... You rather call it south-eastern European, Anatolian, Caucasian (region) and northern Mesopotamian. Not typical European...

The people who brought this haplogroup in Europe came to Crete and the Greek mainland from central Anatolia, 9000YBP. They did spread all over Europe (including Scandinavia, having 3%) but they never made a strong presence above the numbers I mentioned.

So, If you ask me the claim is exhagerated if not Eurocentric. Maybe they presented it like that for attention. I dunno, but I found it quite riddiculus.

Interesting. But what of the second question: if they were not wiped out, then are they still represented today?
 

Midas

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
4,129
Scandinavia, Balkans, Anatolia, Hatay
#10
many anatolians were actually europeans fleeing climatic and geographical catastrophe so technically the anatolian neolithics were in large part just europeans going home.





there have been a series of exciting international workshops concerning the middle danube lately. some very strange terms are flying around among normal sane employed scientists because very strange things are popping out of the ground... in addition to the staggering amount of previously recovered material the rest of the world had never had access to before.

pooh pooh the danube at your peril.


cheers
nic
Yes, you're right but that is just a part of the Anatolian ancestry. I guess you refer to the people who migrated from the Balkans to the western and northwestern Anatolia. The Minoan ancestors from central Anatolia that I was refering to have their origins in northern Mesopotamia 19000YBP. Those central & eastern Anatolians were not the typical Europeans.
 

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