The European Union.

Comet

Forum Staff
Aug 2006
8,702
IA
I didn't say that Greece contributed nothing to the world. It may be where Western civilization began, but it was not the birthplace of all civilization. Just 1 of many.

I think this is what should've been said the first time around...however, being as we all are human, mistakes and miscommunication do occur from time to time. Realism, I know no one with greater knowledge of the Far East, which is why I may need your help in a few weeks. I'm teaching my kids about the history of the China and Japan. I would like some good, in-depth material to supplement are crappy curriculum. Are you up for it?

Amalia, Nikd, I start Greece in December...the same type of help would be greatly appreciated..if you are up for it?

BTW, this discussion about the EU has been pretty good. I only wish I had something to contribute :(
 
Last edited:
Sep 2006
1,453
Korea (but I'm American!)
Certainly. What kind of materials? Do you mean internet sites? How much stuff do you need, how far back do you want to go?
 

Afrasiyab

Ad Honorem
Sep 2007
6,378
well, amalia1985,i replied Nikd because he implied, really he did, that Turkey needs civilization. that's so obvious or am i being paranoid and a little bit nationalist?

and i said, yes, if Turkey needs The Eu to be more civilized, then we do not need it at all. because you have been a member of the eu for decades and what i have seen in Greece indicates that The Eu is too bad at 'making sb/sth civilized'.

Greece, Hellas Hora Tou Fotos ! i love Ancient Greece! everything about it but i have to agree with Dr.Realizm about the origin of civilization. Greece, and comparatively Rome, can be the source of western civilization. but people also have to accept that Greece was not alone. Miseastern and Anatolian contributions can not be denied at all.

you think the greatest leader in the world is Alexander, amalia. so you have to study his life better then you will see today's greece owns a lot to the East.
i am not insulting any country at all. i might be misunderstood. if offended anyone, i am sorry.

yes, we are friends, by the way.

that's all.
 
Sep 2007
121
athens,greece
For me, civilization is all about politics, democracy, arts (literature, theatre, etc.)And all these were born in Greece. But don't you think that we have gone far from the issue here?
 
Sep 2007
121
athens,greece
well, amalia1985,i replied Nikd because he implied, really he did, that Turkey needs civilization. that's so obvious or am i being paranoid and a little bit nationalist?

and i said, yes, if Turkey needs The Eu to be more civilized, then we do not need it at all. because you have been a member of the eu for decades and what i have seen in Greece indicates that The Eu is too bad at 'making sb/sth civilized'.

Greece, Hellas Hora Tou Fotos ! i love Ancient Greece! everything about it but i have to agree with Dr.Realizm about the origin of civilization. Greece, and comparatively Rome, can be the source of western civilization. but people also have to accept that Greece was not alone. Miseastern and Anatolian contributions can not be denied at all.

you think the greatest leader in the world is Alexander, amalia. so you have to study his life better then you will see today's greece owns a lot to the East.
i am not insulting any country at all. i might be misunderstood. if offended anyone, i am sorry.

yes, we are friends, by the way.

that's all.
Yes, I WAS OFFENDED, and yes, the world's greatest leader was Alexander for me. And East was certainly a step further to his glory, no matter if some lunatic Oliver Stone et al. try really hard to shed darkness on him.
I'm very happy that you recognise Greeks no longer live in caves, it is again a step towards a further understanding and I accept your apology.
I have studied Alexander's life, by the way. My university graduation project- which received the "excellent" mark- was 120 pages on Alexander's life, dating from his ancestors in Hypiros and Samothrace to his death and the extermination of his offspring to the execution of Olympias by stoning, so I don't think I should be lectured on his life, because I know his story very, very well.
And, unfortunately, we do not hold the countries Alexander conquered anymore (for whatever reasons and faults of the past);)
P.S. I would be stupid to hold hard feelings for things that happened centuries ago.It suits others and does not agree with my personality and mentality.
P.S.2 We have really nice caves in Greece, I would love to live there still, instead of my noisy block-of-flat, full of hooliganic adolescents who listen to folk music.
 
Last edited:
Sep 2007
121
athens,greece
Amalia, Nikd, I start Greece in December...the same type of help would be greatly appreciated..if you are up for it?
Try www.ancientgreece.com, www.ancient-greece.org which contains maps, artifacts,etc. and www.historyforkids.org in the link regarding Ancient Greece.It really helped me in my first steps as a young teacher some months ago.
If you are interested in other periods of Greek history, like the Byzantine Empire, try www.fordham.edu/halsall/byzantium.
I couldn't find any better source,and still I wasn't quite satisfied with this one, but you can bother to have a look and decide for yourself.
If you are interested in the years after 1453, you can check fstav.tripod.com/1821/en1821.html,but it is a difficult period for young children. I used it-not extensively-in my 15-year-olds class.
There are also books, and other materials you can find, via Amazon et al. (but please, don't show them any "Troy" film and such, as I have heard others do. How can someone learn history from such kind of cinema, I wonder?)
Any kind of help you may wish for, I'll be there to give it to you, since Ancient Greece is something I have read a lot about (willingly, and unwillingly:p )
 

Lucius

Forum Staff
Jan 2007
16,363
Nebraska
Whether this or that country "should" be in the European Union depends upon what we mean by "Europe." Is Britain part of Europe? I guess it depends whom one asks. In a strictly geographical sense, part of Turkey is west of the Bosporus Strait, and so, in Europe. Or does 51% of the country have to be "in" Europe for it to qualify?

I think what "Europe" represents to the non-European part of the planet is liberal democracy, which was born in France in 1789. So, maybe just change the name to the 1789 Union? That way, a candidate for membership could be evaluated in terms of how the existing members define liberal democracy, since the phrase apparently has different meanings around the world.

I know, to some people, "Europe" means hereditary absolutism, fascism, communism, and imperialism. But it was precisely liberal democracy which put those things into the Dustbin of History. I am aware that these -isms aren't all the way in the Dustbin, and some keep crawling back out, but they are irrelevant to the future by comparision, if nothing else. That's why the 1789 Union should be as large as it can be - but no larger. No one wants to dilute the meaning of 1789.
 

Comet

Forum Staff
Aug 2006
8,702
IA
Certainly. What kind of materials? Do you mean internet sites? How much stuff do you need, how far back do you want to go?

Let me take a look at the curriculum for that section and I will get with you through private message. That way, I'm not taking away from the good discussion here :)
 

Comet

Forum Staff
Aug 2006
8,702
IA
Try www.ancientgreece.com, www.ancient-greece.org which contains maps, artifacts,etc. and www.historyforkids.org in the link regarding Ancient Greece.It really helped me in my first steps as a young teacher some months ago.
If you are interested in other periods of Greek history, like the Byzantine Empire, try www.fordham.edu/halsall/byzantium.
I couldn't find any better source,and still I wasn't quite satisfied with this one, but you can bother to have a look and decide for yourself.
If you are interested in the years after 1453, you can check fstav.tripod.com/1821/en1821.html,but it is a difficult period for young children. I used it-not extensively-in my 15-year-olds class.
There are also books, and other materials you can find, via Amazon et al. (but please, don't show them any "Troy" film and such, as I have heard others do. How can someone learn history from such kind of cinema, I wonder?)
Any kind of help you may wish for, I'll be there to give it to you, since Ancient Greece is something I have read a lot about (willingly, and unwillingly:p )
We're running with Ancient Greek Civilization in December...I will take a look at these and will try to get back to you. I appreciate the help :)