The Europeans Reached the New World with copies of Chinese Maps?

May 2011
116
1421 Evidence | Chinese Shipwrecks | Chinese Exploration | Chinese Renaissance | How China discovered the world| Gavin Menzies Research |Voyages of discovery

Theory

Four huge Chinese fleets circumnavigated the world between March 1421 and October 1423. The fleets comprised more than 800 vessels. These fleets charted the world.
Sailors and concubines from those great fleets settled in Malaysia, India, Africa, N. and S. America, Australia, New Zealand and on islands across the Pacific
The first European explorers all had maps showing where they were going before they set sail. They met Chinese settlers when they arrived in the New World.
China, not Europe thus discovered and settled the New World. European ‘discoveries’ relied on China leading the way.
(i) The whole world was charted by 1428 - by whom?

Portuguese claim they had a chart of the whole world by then. They do not claim to have created that chart.

The Pizzigano, Fra Mauro, Piri Reis, Cantino, Caverio, Waldseemueller and Jean Rotz charts show whole world charted before Europeans set sail.

European explorers referred to earlier maps made before they set sail - contemporary accounts of Columbus, Diaz, Cabral, da Gama, and Magellan’s voyages are the evidence.

(ii) Continents shown on maps before European explorers set sail for that particular region:

(a) North America - shown on Waldseemueller, Cantino and Caverio charts
(b) Caribbean - on Pizzigano, Cantino, Caverio and Waldseemueller
(c) South America - on Piri Reis, Cantino and Waldseemueller
(d) Africa, India and East - Cantino (1502) and Jean Rotz (1542), Fra Mauro (1459) and Waldseemueller (1507) Kangnido (1402)
(e) Antarctica - Piri Reis (1513), Francesco Roselli (1508) and Diego Hominem
(f) Arctic and Siberia - Waldseemueller (1507)
(g) Australia - Jean Rotz, Desliens, Vallard, Desceliers, Ricci
(h) China and Far East - Jean Rotz
(i) Canada (Vancouver and Queen Charlotte Islands) - Zatta
(j) Straits of Magellan - Waldseemueller (Small Globes) c. 1507 and Piri Reis (1513)
(k) South Africa - Fra Mauro (1459) and Kangnido (1402-1470) and Da Ming Yi Tu (1389)

(iii) Islands shown on maps before Europeans got there:

(a) Maldives, Chagos, Diego Garcia, St Paul, Amsterdam, on Cantino (1502)
(b) Kerguelen on Wu Pei Chih (c. 1422).
Longitude of East Africa precisely correct on Cantino before Europeans could measure Longitude (see 4 below)

(iv) The great rivers of the world were shown on the key charts long before Europeans set sail - Europeans therefore did not chart the rivers

(a) The Martellus Maps (1489) - (Gallez, P. and Davis, H.)
South America - Colombia - Magdalena
Venezuela - Orinoco (Meta)
Amazon
Brazil - São Francisco
Paraguay - Paraguay and Paraná
Argentina - Colorado, Negro and Chubut (Patagonia).

(b) Cantino (1502)
South America - Colombia - Magdalena
Venezuela - Apure, Orinoco (Cavra)

(c) Waldseemueller (1507)
Siberia - Ob, Yenisei, Kotuy, Olenek, Lena, Yana, Indigirka and Kolyma
N. America - Mississippi, Brazos, Alabama, Roanoke, Delaware, Hudson.

(d) Toscanelli (1474)
Australia - Murray, Darling, Cooper, Diamantina, Flinders.

(v) Straits of Magellan/Patagonia

‘Dragon’s tail’ (1428 chart) and its giants described on anon. (Durand (1440) and Walsperger (1448 Maps), and shown on Waldseemueller Globe

(vi) Correlations between charts of the world before Europeans set sail and the 1428 Master Chart of the World

(a) The Waldseemueller (1507), Cantino (1502) and Caverio (1505) These three draw the Great Bahamas Bank identically and as it would have appeared in 1421 with water levels one fathom lower than today. However, the earlier charts have features which do not appear on later ones, viz. the (earlier) Cantino shows Florida, which the later Caverio does not. The three charts must therefore be based on an earlier original.

(b) Anon (Durand) (1440) and Walsperger (1448)
Both refer to Tierra del Fuego as the ‘Dragon’s Tail’, the name given by the 1428 Master Chart. Both refer in identical terms to the Giants of Patagonia, hence must have a common source.

(c) The Desliens, Desceliers, Vallard and Jean Rotz all show Australia with great similarity - but each with original features, i.e. Vallard with horses. All must have been based on an earlier original (which has subsequently been lost).

(d) The Waldseemueller and Martellus (1489)
These both show the Cape of Good Hope at 45 degrees S and the same ‘dogleg’, “India Meridionales” in the east. The Waldseemueller shows S. America, which the Martellus does not – both must have been based on an earlier original.

(e) The Piri Reis and Pizzigano
They are linked by Columbus’s description (note on Piri Reis) of Antilia (on Pizzigano).

(f) Anon (Durand) (1440), Walsperger (1448) and Piri Reis 1513 (1501)
All are linked by descriptions of the giants of Tierra del Fuego and of Columbus’s description of two hours’ daylight (Piri Reis).

(g) The Waldseemueller (1507), Cantino (1502) and Piri Reis 1513 (1501)
They are linked by their drawings of Arecibo (Venezuela).

These maps between them chart the entire world. They must, because of the links, have been based on an earlier original which must have been made before 1507 (Waldseemueller), and after 1423 (Pizzigano).

(vii) Links connecting the charts with the Chinese.
(The charts described below were published before Europeans reached that particular part of the world. Viz:)

(a) Jean Rotz (1542)
Depiction of China, Australia and Hong Kong - Link: Kangaroos in Chinese Emperor’s zoo, and Chinese charts showing Australia before 1542.

(b) The Martellus (1489)
The Orinoco and Amazon rivers - Link: Chinese DNA is found among American Indian peoples there - pre-Columbus (Arends and Gallengo). The Illustrated Record of Strange Countries (published 1430) shows Chinese animals unique to S. America

(c) The Piri Reis (1501 - 1513)
Link: Animals unique to Patagonia shown on Piri Reis which are also to be seen in The Illustrated Record of Strange Countries (1430). Description of the mylodon in Chinese records. ‘Chinese’ DNA in Mato Grosso people.

(d) The Anon (Durand) (1440), Walsperger (1448) and 1428 chart
Link: Description of the giants found in Patagonia with the descriptions in The Illustrated Record of Strange Countries (1430). The name "the dragon’s tail" is found in the three charts denoting Tierra del Fuego. ‘Chinese’ DNA in people of Mato Grosso

(e) The Cantino
Link: Longitude of E. Africa almost perfect (± 30 miles). The Chinese alone could determine longitude at that time.

(f) The Cantino, Waldseemueller and Caverio show Arecibo.
Link: Venezuelan tribes have Chinese DNA (Arends and Gallengo)

(viii) Chinese cartography and transmission of maps to the West

(a) The author contends Europeans could ‘translate’ Chinese maps into ones understandable to Europeans - witness Father Ricci’s map of Australia drawn 1589 - before Europeans reached Australia. His chart used earlier Chinese ones.

(b) Author contends Chinese had best cartographers in the world prior to the Renaissance - witness:
(i) Chang Heng (78-139 AD) Flat surface grid system (Bob Butcher’s Evidence)
(ii) Phei Hsiu (224-271) grid system
(iii) Phei Chu (605 AD) classic grid map
(iv) Chia Tan (730-805) map of Empire
(v) Cartographer unknown (940 AD) cylindrical projection (precursor of Mercator)
(vi) " " " (1137) Yu Chi Thu stone map
(vii) " " " (1155) First Chinese printed map (predates European by two centuries)
(viii) Chu Ssu Pen (1273-1337) map of China, Asia, Africa and Europe - Africa has triangular shape
(ix) Li Tse-Min and Ching-Chun (1328-1392) expand on Chu Ssu Pen.

(c) Star charts - Wu Pei Chih and Rosa Mui and Paul Dong's work (Jupiter’s moons c. 200 BC).

(d) Longitude: Chinese map of all China dated 1137 carved in stone - longitude correct (History of Topographical Maps, P D A Harvey - Brien Liebst.)

(viii) China sends her maps to the West

The author contends it was Chinese policy to send her maps to the West - for otherwise how could tribute countries reach China to pay tribute?

Evidence:
(i) Brazilian delegation setting sail for China in 1501/02 with map showing route (Professor Bi Quanzhong, evidence to Kunming Conference 10 December 2002).
(ii) Chinese Emperor’s order to send maps to West which resulted in Liu Daxia destroying all available records of Zheng He’s voyage. (Professor Bi Quanzhong - Evidence 10)

(ix) Nicolo da Conti as the intermediary between the Chinese and Europeans
The author relies upon the evidence given in his book and that recently found in the Fujian Palace (Admiral Zheng Ming’s evidence to Kunming Conference, 10 December 2002). In the Fujian Palace (discovered when extending Fujian International airport runway) are statues of Zheng He and his Admirals. Standing next to Zheng He and closer to him than his Admirals is a European mediaeval merchant - as evidenced by his clothes and hat. The merchant carries documents/maps. The most likely explanation is that this statue is of Nicolo da Conti who describes his passage from Calicut to China via Australia and who was in Calicut when Chinese fleet arrived in 1421. His statue resembles drawing in Illustrated Record of Strange Countries (1430)

(x) The Portuguese Claim
Antonio Galvão’s description of the world map which the Portuguese Dauphin Dom Pedro took back with him from Venice in 1428: “Dom Peter, the King of Portugal’s eldest sonne, was a great traveller . . . came home by Italie, taking Rome and Venice in his way from where he brought a map of the world which had all the parts of the world and earth described. The Strait of Magellan was called in it ‘the dragon’s taile’: the Cape of Bona Sperancia, the forefront of Afrike and so forth...”

Antonio Galvão again: “It was told me by Francis de Sousa Tavares that in the year 1528 Don Fernando the King’s eldest son showed him a map found in the study of the Alcobaza that had been made 120 years before which map set forth all the navigation of the East Indies, with the Cape of Bon Sperancia as our later maps have described it; whereby it appeareth that in ancient times that was as much or more discovered than there is now.”

So who drew the 1428 chart? It is the author’s claim that Dom Pedro debriefed Nicolo da Conti in Florence in 1424. Nicolo had sailed with the Chinese fleet from India to Australia and China (Travels of Nicolo da Conti).
 
Aug 2010
1,195
Atlanta, GA
There is zero evidence to support any of the fiction that Gavin Menzies has written.

His Wikipedia page does a good job of showing the complete lack credibility he and his claims have.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_Menzies"]Gavin Menzies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 

bunyip

Ad Honorem
Sep 2010
2,960
That's a wild theory not supported by any actual evidence.
Indeed. I bought "1421;The Year China Discovered The World" by Gavin Menzies,paying over $50. I believed it was a serious history book. I was livid to discover it is not.

The author is yet another autodidact who has not managed to grasp the meaning of the word "evidence". The book is crackpottery of the first water,which was shredded by real scholars (including in the PRC) when it was first published.

00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

In 2002, Menzies published 1421: The Year China Discovered the World. The book is written informally, as a series of vignettes of Menzies' travels around the globe examining what he claims is evidence for his "1421 hypothesis", interspersed with speculation[6] and description of the achievements of Admiral Zheng He's fleet. Menzies states in the introduction that the book is an attempt to answer the question:
On some early European world maps, it appears that someone had charted and surveyed lands supposedly unknown to the Europeans. Who could have charted and surveyed these lands before they were "discovered"?

Criticism of 1421

Within the academic world, the book (and Menzies' "1421 hypothesis") is dismissed by sinologists and professional historians.[26][27][28] In 2004, historian Robert Finlay severely criticized Menzies in the Journal of World History for his "reckless manner of dealing with evidence" that led him to propose hypotheses "without a shred of proof".[6] Finlay wrote:
Unfortunately, this reckless manner of dealing with evidence is typical of 1421, vitiating all its extraordinary claims: the voyages it describes never took place, Chinese information never reached Prince Henry and Columbus, and there is no evidence of the Ming fleets in newly discovered lands. The fundamental assumption of the book—that Zhu Di dispatched the Ming fleets because he had a "grand plan", a vision of charting the world and creating a maritime empire spanning the oceans—is simply asserted by Menzies without a shred of proof ... The reasoning of 1421 is inexorably circular, its evidence spurious, its research derisory, its borrowings unacknowledged, its citations slipshod, and its assertions preposterous ... Examination of the book's central claims reveals they are uniformly without substance.[29]
A group of scholars and navigators, Su Ming Yang of the United States, Jin Guo-Ping of Portugal, Philip Rivers of Malaysia, Malhão Pereira and Geoff Wade of Singapore questioned Menzies' methods and findings in a joint message:[24]
His book 1421: The Year China Discovered the World, is a work of sheer fiction presented as revisionist history. Not a single document or artifact has been found to support his new claims on the supposed Ming naval expeditions beyond Africa...Menzies' numerous claims and the hundreds of pieces of "evidence" he has assembled have been thoroughly and entirely discredited by historians, maritime experts and oceanographers from China, the U.S., Europe and elsewhere.[24]
See also criticism of his next book,'1434',which is not as kind,accusing Menzies of fraud

Gavin Menzies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
May 2011
116
There is zero evidence to support any of the fiction that Gavin Menzies has written.

His Wikipedia page does a good job of showing the complete lack credibility he and his claims have.

Gavin Menzies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
how you explain this?


DNA Evidence Campeche and Buctzotz Maya Peoples

1. Principal DNA Report relied upon
(a) Title: Polymorphic Alu insertions and the Asian Origin of Native American Populations.
(b) Authors: Gabriel E Novick and colleagues

2. Précis of the Report’s findings
Close similarity between the Chinese and native Americans suggests recent gene flow from Asia.

3. Corroboration or supporting DNA Reports
“Amerindian mitochondrial DNAs have rare Asian mutations at high frequencies.”
Investigated Maya, Ticuna (S America) and Pima (N America). Schurr T G and others – see Bibliography.

4. Corroboration or supporting reports into ailments or diseases which suggest Chinese arrived by sea
(i) The astonishing finding by Novick et al that Maya DNA is closer to Chinese DNA than Maya DNA is to N, Central or S American DNA.
(ii) Hookworm and roundworm diseases endemic to S E Asia and China.

5. Did the first Europeans to reach the area in which the Campeche and Buctzotz peoples live find Chinese already there?
Yes, Columbus (secret report).

6. Other evidence showing links with China
(a) Principal
(i) Gabriel Novick and colleagues’ findings (see 4 above).
(ii) Late Maya art at Chichen Itza and Copan is Chinese art.
(iii) The work of entomologist Julio Lopez-Maldonado, University of California Davis - He is proposing a new way to read the hieroglyphic Mayan writing system, proving that this is totally phonetic and astonishingly rich in literary terms. The relevance of the preliminary results points out that is totally contrary to what we have been previously told that the Mayan writing system was not but a child language or a telegraphic language as it is has been proposed by the Mayanist epigraphers in the last 160 years. Preliminary results actually suggest a strong connection culturally and linguistically with the Chinese writing system and culture.

(b) Secondary links with China
(i) Yucatan appears on world maps, viz. Cantino, Caverio, before Europeans got there.
(ii) Chinese people in Mexico met by first Europeans – Coronado, Acosta, Galvão.
(iii) Jacutacato shroud showing foreign visitors on horseback and dogs.
(iv) Chinese figurines at Teotihuacan.
(v) Chinese body entombed, Teotihuacan.
(vi) Chinese chickens, roses, hibiscus, rice, ship dogs found by first Europeans.
(vii) Chinese lacquer technology used by Maya found by first Europeans.
(viii) Chinese jade medallions and earplugs.
(ix) Chinese statue (Teotihuacan), vase (Azacapotzaco), dyestuff technology used by Maya.
(x) Close physical similarity between Othomis Maya and Chinese.
(xi) Maya glyphs in temples interspersed with Chinese and Phaspa (Eunuch secret language).

7. Evidence in Synopsis of Evidence on website 1434 Gavin Menzies | 1421 | Chinese Voyages | Renaissance history |medieval history | maritime exploration |Chinese Exploration | Admiral Zheng He | Chinese Junks.
Paras 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20; Annex XIX.

8. Reference in 1421 The Year China Discovered America
Chapters 9 and 19, pages 197-236.
 
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mingming

Ad Honorem
Feb 2011
4,742
Los Santos, San Andreas
I thought 1421 was a serious book too. The first three were actually pretty good! Then I realize it was just speculative stuff. At least I bought the book cheap. :D
 

Belgarion

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,740
Australia
I read 1421 with great interest as well, at least initially. I came to realise that it was a piece of unsubstantiated and speculative crap. There was a bit of excitement a few years back when a Chinese cannon was allegedly discovered on an island off the Queensland coast. This was touted as proof of Menzies claims. Red faces all round when the 'cannon' proved to be a piece of metal mast from a 19th century sailing ship.:lol: