The first government/s and entire evolution of governments to the newest most up to date starting from the Neolithic era to today in the entire world?

Naomasa298

Forum Staff
Apr 2010
34,479
T'Republic of Yorkshire
#21
But the non-dominant male can always leave the group. Non-dominant males who do not leave the group have accepted the tyranny of the alpha, but it's still a group based on voluntary free association.

By the Neo-Lithic I'm pretty sure we had developed a capacity for reason beyond that of primates. The power of speech gave man a far greater capacity to negotiate his place in society than primates ever had.
That's true, but a non dominant male leaving the group exposes himself to the risk of predators. He can join another group but he would still be the non dominant male there. He could try and establish his own group.

Ultimately, that's because primates have evolved to seek safety in numbers, like many animals.

I'm not saying humans are exact parallels of lesser primate species, but it's a model that I believe would hold true amongst early human societies.

We could probably examine how primitive tribes in the Amazon are structured as a guide.
 
Likes: Edratman
#23
But if you consider primate groups as a model for early human societies, the adults don't all have a say in what the group does - it's all down to the dominant male. The only way another male gets a say is to challenge the dominant male.
That's where the Chief of the tribe structure starts.

........... and I imagine that would of started fairly quickly, again, once you move above 10-20 people into 50 - 100 you'll get the Head guy with his fellow leading adult males as his warrior aristocracy making sure everyone stays in line.

Whether its Celtic, Mongol, Native American, Arabic Bedouin or African Zulu's ........... its the same all over the world.
 
#24
Tyranny emerged when the terrors of the world forced people to band together into ever larger groups. Eventually the groups grew too large for every adult to have a voice in daily government. The outside terrors, like hostile tribes or groups, prevented people from leaving the group, which empowered the leaders and allowed them to become despots and tyrants. The tipping point between pure democracy and tyranny is somewhere larger than 20 or 30 adults but is probably less than 100 adults.
Its not just tyranny because of terrors of the world, its resources.

People came and stayed in cities and towns due to the resources they have there.

Food, medical practitioners, protection, law and order, houses etc.

Tyranny to me is when your being ruled over against your will, people in a tribe or town accept the local ruler as part of the trade off.

The Chief or Jarl and his men would be on the front line facing arrows and swords for you and your family, they uphold law so your wife doesn't get raped and they make sure the lands are worked so everyone doesn't starve and that no one can steal it .......... that's not tyranny, that's accepting to be part of a society for mutual benefit.

When the Huns invaded from the steppes, whoever maligned their local Chief got a first class taste of what life is like when the Warrior Chief system can no longer protect you .......... and it wasn't pretty.
 

Chlodio

Forum Staff
Aug 2016
4,070
Dispargum
#25
Its not just tyranny because of terrors of the world, its resources.

People came and stayed in cities and towns due to the resources they have there.
Food, medical practitioners, protection, law and order, houses etc.
... that's not tyranny, that's accepting to be part of a society for mutual benefit.
Opposite sides of the same coin: people moved to a city to gain access to food = fear of starvation, to gain access to doctors = fear of disease, law and order = fear of crime, etc.

Or to put it another way, trading democratic freedom for security.
 
Aug 2019
19
United Kingdom
#26
There are so many theories, myth and speculation surrounding our ancestors. Which one is right? No one can honestly say. We are taught our history based mainly on mainstream assumptions, that are repeated over and over again, so much so, that they become almost fact. We are lacking basic information and rudimentary artefacts, that would assist us with our understanding of pre history - or are we?

There are many thousands of clay tablets that have been found in ancient Mesopotamia. These clay tablets are imprinted with cuneiform text detailing all aspects of the daily lives of the ancient Mesopotamians. There are marriage contracts, property sales and leases. Stock control, laws and almost everything that would be recorded by us today, was being done in pre history. The tablets also speak of the history of our planet, and prior to earths existence. They tell of wars and conquests and even mention the great pyramid,, even though it has been credited to have been built by Khufu thousands of years later.

It is reported that only 10% of the tablets have been deciphered, whilst most of them sit locked away in museum storerooms around the world. Why is this? Why are we not, as a matter of great urgency, not investigating the rich history of the first organised human existence? An existence that has been written in stone and is there for everyone to behold and contemplate. Why do we speculate when there is written documentary evidence, completed at the dawn of man, and telling the daily affairs of what seems to be a powerful, intelligent, and cultured people who gave is so much.

Some of the Sumerian’s writings and art work are absolutely beautiful and astounding. Why was I not taught about this in school? Why should we accept speculations and suppositions from our current mainstream history experts, when there is a wealth of knowledge that is waiting to be brought to light, contained on the clay tablets that have not yet been formally decoded.

Am I going crazy by believing the written accounts, upon ancient clay tablets, of people living in ancient times, over the assumptions of our current historians?

I would welcome a reply
 

Naomasa298

Forum Staff
Apr 2010
34,479
T'Republic of Yorkshire
#27
There are so many theories, myth and speculation surrounding our ancestors. Which one is right? No one can honestly say. We are taught our history based mainly on mainstream assumptions, that are repeated over and over again, so much so, that they become almost fact. We are lacking basic information and rudimentary artefacts, that would assist us with our understanding of pre history - or are we?

There are many thousands of clay tablets that have been found in ancient Mesopotamia. These clay tablets are imprinted with cuneiform text detailing all aspects of the daily lives of the ancient Mesopotamians. There are marriage contracts, property sales and leases. Stock control, laws and almost everything that would be recorded by us today, was being done in pre history. The tablets also speak of the history of our planet, and prior to earths existence. They tell of wars and conquests and even mention the great pyramid,, even though it has been credited to have been built by Khufu thousands of years later.

It is reported that only 10% of the tablets have been deciphered, whilst most of them sit locked away in museum storerooms around the world. Why is this? Why are we not, as a matter of great urgency, not investigating the rich history of the first organised human existence? An existence that has been written in stone and is there for everyone to behold and contemplate. Why do we speculate when there is written documentary evidence, completed at the dawn of man, and telling the daily affairs of what seems to be a powerful, intelligent, and cultured people who gave is so much.

Some of the Sumerian’s writings and art work are absolutely beautiful and astounding. Why was I not taught about this in school? Why should we accept speculations and suppositions from our current mainstream history experts, when there is a wealth of knowledge that is waiting to be brought to light, contained on the clay tablets that have not yet been formally decoded.

Am I going crazy by believing the written accounts, upon ancient clay tablets, of people living in ancient times, over the assumptions of our current historians?

I would welcome a reply
What, specifically, is relevant to this thread from the clay tablets?
 
Aug 2019
19
United Kingdom
#28
I’m not saying anything except that the rest of the stone tablets should be translated and the evidence gleaned from the same, should be compiled and then give us the true facts of what was happening to our world during the time of the Sumerian culture. What else can I say? Until these ancient texts are fully researched, anything else is merely informed speculation.

The Sumerian’s gave is the earliest recorded civilisation. The first writing, complex mathematics, complex astrology, our counting system, our perception and the measurement of time - 24 hours in a day, 60 minutes in one hour, sixty seconds in one hour, 360 degrees on the compas, first recorded contracts, first lawyers, the calculations regarding the precession of the earths axis, and on and on and on.

The stories told of the birth of modern day human beings, stories like the great flood, of religious men whose names we still know today, the story of a son of Anu who was killed. The story could almost be attributed to Jesus Christ but this happened 2 thousand years before Christ was born. Almost all of the Old Testament of the Bible can be traced back to ancient Sumerian’s.

Let’s look at the evidence available and then answer your question
 

Naomasa298

Forum Staff
Apr 2010
34,479
T'Republic of Yorkshire
#30
Why should people speculate on our earliest origins? A lot of information is available but unread, that could answer basic questions about the earliest rulers
If none of it is relevant to the topic being discussed in this thread, I suggest you start a new thread of your own.
 

Similar History Discussions