The "Gilets Jaunes" in France: a revolution unfolding in front of our eyes ?

royal744

Ad Honoris
Jul 2013
10,653
San Antonio, Tx
Now do Trump.
It may surprise you that I do not support impeaching Trump. Not because I “support” him - I don’t. The Democrats simply need to defeat him in the popular election. If he is impeached (and he won’t be successfully impeached), but if it’s somehow successful, his removal through impeachment is likely to be much more divisive and nasty than just losing the election. The Republicans-will complain ad infinitum and lie about the reasons (many!) for his removal from office. That’s not worth it in my opinion. Just beat him fair and square.

Of course, he might win but I have my doubts.
 

Willempie

Ad Honorem
Jul 2015
5,393
Netherlands
It may surprise you that I do not support impeaching Trump. Not because I “support” him - I don’t. The Democrats simply need to defeat him in the popular election. If he is impeached (and he won’t be successfully impeached), but if it’s somehow successful, his removal through impeachment is likely to be much more divisive and nasty than just losing the election. The Republicans-will complain ad infinitum and lie about the reasons (many!) for his removal from office. That’s not worth it in my opinion. Just beat him fair and square.
I sortof half agree (I entirely agree with you sentiment, but not with your reasoning for not impeaching). Imo for impeachment you need a real crime, so not like the Bill Clionton saga or the current clutching at Muelller. Imo in order to unseat a prez, be it Trump or Macron, you have two opportunities: a completely hostile parliament or an electoral defeat.
That being said, there are 2 exceptions, crimes and popular revolt. To me neither the US or the French situation come close. Though personally i would like to see Macron gone (much as I suspect you for the other;)).
Of course, he might win but I have my doubts.
I agree. Now he has the best outlook, but you don't know what can happen in 1.5 years, plus polls are not to be relied on.
But the dems really need someone with a good story as "I hate Trump" isn't going to cut it.
 

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
5,003
Sydney
It seems to me that the Democrats are loosing their way
fighting yesterday battles so to speak
now the anointed vessel of their hope is Biden
hardly a candidate which bring some fresh air , more an old hackneyed nag , paraded for another turn on the circus
Trump can hardly wish for a better opponent
most other candidate seems to cover the range from shallow to thin
I've been following Tulsi Gabbard , that's some strong medicine and fresh air
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,812
All interesting stuff , but not very relevant to the topic at hand.... lets get back on track

The gilets jaunes are still at it but the movement seems to have petered out with just a few thousand demonstrating by now.... If that proves to be the case, then a combination of police violence, feet dragging and diversion (a "big debate" initiave lasting several weeks and involving thousands of people was orchestrated with the aim of diverting attention and making it look like the government was doing something) will have been the winning recipe... Sure to be imitated by other governments facing dissent in the streets..... And quite well played, really

Unless the president's party suffers a crushing defeat in the current european elections (unlikely based on current polls), these results will be used to defend the line that the party and the president still have high legitimacy while the gilets jaunes have none....
 
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tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,812
We'll see the 27th. In the meantime you could read this about the stress on the police. Shooting at people apparently causes stress
I think I got the gist, but @deaf tuner may be able to translate it better.
« Je ne l’excuse pas, mais je comprends le craquage » : les policiers face à leur propre violence
"I dont excuse it, but I understand their break down": police face their own violence.....

and a bit further down

"the government denies the existence of police brutality during "gilets jaunes" demonstrations and asks police to more agressively engage, and that could make the situation worse"

and a bit further down the story of a police woman who shot a rubber bullet at the head of a demonstrator (this is prohibited) ... and says she really does not understand why she did so
 

Maribat

Ad Honorem
Mar 2012
5,048
In 20 days in Paris and the nearabouts I saw only a couple of yellow jackets on the Place de la Republic. What a dissapointment! Are they real?
 

deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
14,533
Europix
All interesting stuff , but not very relevant to the topic at hand.... lets get back on track

The gilets jaunes are still at it but the movement seems to have petered out with just a few thousand demonstrating by now.... If that proves to be the case, then a combination of police violence, feet dragging and diversion (a "big debate" initiave lasting several weeks and involving thousands of people was orchestrated with the aim of diverting attention and making it look like the government was doing something) will have been the winning recipe... Sure to be imitated by other governments facing dissent in the streets..... And quite well played, really

Unless the president's party suffers a crushing defeat in the current european elections (unlikely based on current polls), these results will be used to defend the line that the party and the president still have high legitimacy while the gilets jaunes have none....
There is something to put upon the other side: the movement never cristalzed in something. It remained at a blured discontent level (and I'm not saying that discontent or protesting was unjustified by that).

That kind of protest ends up into nothing usually.

In this case, there was also the agravating circumstance of gratuit, useless violence (it's not so different from the hardcore hooligans that can destroy the fan club).