The "Gilets Jaunes" in France: a revolution unfolding in front of our eyes ?

Linschoten

Ad Honoris
Aug 2010
16,205
Welsh Marches
It's really not a good idea for any elected leader to be pushed out of power by disorder in the streets, even if he has grown unpopular.
 
Apr 2012
1,040
The Netherlands
Let's not go into generalizations. France had Hollande, who was hugely unpopular for most of his term. I am talking about consistently unpopular leaders. Macron was elected largely out of fear of Le Pen coming to power, not because the French people believed in his vision or liked his policies. He was a less bitter pill to swallow (for the majority who voted for him, at least). Needless to say, coming to power that way has certain consequences. We often speak about the threat of 'populism' but the other extreme which is mentioned far less often is that people often end up with leaders who don't care about their opinion and take the democratic process for granted. Macron is a part of an elite, insulated and divorced from day-to-day reality, and he's not the only one. To make it worse, Macron has displayed a great deal of arrogance and heavy-handedness during his presidency.

We can put it this way as well: if you're not doing your job well, you're likely get sacked by your employer. Politicians shouldn't be an exception.
Now I am no expert on Macron but wasn't a large part of the criticism widely known during the election? He said he wanted to change France in the sense he wished for it to be more liberal and competitive. The French looked at that and felt it was preferable to Le Pen. As you said that was the main drive for his election, mission accomplished. But then isn't complaining about those very same things after the goal has been achieved kind of...spoiled? They knew they would get a ''liberal'' president that would take certain privileges away and that would try to leave things to the market. The knew it and they were okay with that, even if only because it was the lesser of two evils. Can we say Macron does his job poorly if he just does what he said he would? I recall Hollande being critisised for not reigning as promised but Macron's time in office seems exactly as expected. Liberal and kinda elitist. The voters knew that well in advance.

I'm less concerned with elitist government in part because I think its mostly a boogeyman used by populist to deprive legitimacy of everyone but themselves. But in the parts where there is truth to the boogeyman its also more stable, more concerned with running the store efficiently(even if not always nicely) rather than taking risky gambles for electoral gain. I don't expect Macron or similar figures like Cameron or Rutte to lie awake at night worrying over little old me. But I do expect them to take their jobs seriously with at least the bare minimum of base competency. Don't screw up, don't unleash disaster and preferable improve the country and its a decent job in my book.

As for Macron's arrogance, its a pretty famous stereotype that the French want a president that acts like a king and now their desire was granted. Hollande being ''mister normal'' was part of the reason he was so disliked.
 

Valens

Ad Honorem
Feb 2014
8,303
Colonia Valensiana
How large a crowd do we need to oust a president ? How Often does it need to happen? how many streets do they need to destroy? how many buildings do they need to burn or deface? What is the time frame after being elected do we need that to happen? and what do a crowd of opposite viewpoint need to do to mitigate the ouster?
I wasn't referring to 'ousting', I said Macron should resign himself, without pressure. If France was a typical parliamentary system, it might happen, but considering it's not, I doubt Macron even considers resigning. French President is basically a semi-monarchical position.
 

deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
14,533
Europix
Macron was elected largely out of fear of Le Pen coming to power, not because the French people believed in his vision or liked his policies. He was a less bitter pill to swallow (for the majority who voted for him, at least).
Valens, that's exactly why president Macron has less problems, has less to worry than others with it's popularity rate: he wasn't popular when he was elected, he didn't represented the "hopes"/"ideals"/"wishes of a significant part of French.

Honestly, why should I resign if I have 3% more not trusting me adding to the 64% not trusting me initially?
 

Iraq Bruin

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
5,195
DC
I think a president should be a person who makes tough decisions even if they are unpopular, don’t triangulate everything
 

Valens

Ad Honorem
Feb 2014
8,303
Colonia Valensiana
Now I am no expert on Macron but wasn't a large part of the criticism widely known during the election? He said he wanted to change France in the sense he wished for it to be more liberal and competitive. The French looked at that and felt it was preferable to Le Pen. As you said that was the main drive for his election, mission accomplished. But then isn't complaining about those very same things after the goal has been achieved kind of...spoiled? They knew they would get a ''liberal'' president that would take certain privileges away and that would try to leave things to the market. The knew it and they were okay with that, even if only because it was the lesser of two evils. Can we say Macron does his job poorly if he just does what he said he would? I recall Hollande being critisised for not reigning as promised but Macron's time in office seems exactly as expected. Liberal and kinda elitist. The voters knew that well in advance.

I'm less concerned with elitist government in part because I think its mostly a boogeyman used by populist to deprive legitimacy of everyone but themselves. But in the parts where there is truth to the boogeyman its also more stable, more concerned with running the store efficiently(even if not always nicely) rather than taking risky gambles for electoral gain. I don't expect Macron or similar figures like Cameron or Rutte to lie awake at night worrying over little old me. But I do expect them to take their jobs seriously with at least the bare minimum of base competency. Don't screw up, don't unleash disaster and preferable improve the country and its a decent job in my book.

As for Macron's arrogance, its a pretty famous stereotype that the French want a president that acts like a king and now their desire was granted. Hollande being ''mister normal'' was part of the reason he was so disliked.
Macron's electoral platform was not something the majority of the French would find acceptable, that was my point in the first place. Between him or Le Pen, Macron was a more acceptable choice, which did not mean the majority of people agree with his economic policies. Both sides of the argument use various tactics for their own ends: the establishment plays the populist scare card, the anti-establishment (not just the so-called 'far right' or 'extreme right') speak of elitism.
I consider every truly democratic government to be populist. As far as I'm aware the Greek word 'Demos' and the Latin word 'Populus' mean the same thing, 'People'. It's just that we moved far away from the original version of democracy, so that populism somehow becomes a threat for democracy, while it should quite the opposite.

On the note of Macron's arrogance, for me, arrogance is not the same as strong leadership skills. It's rather a display of weakness and insecurity than true leadership.
 

Valens

Ad Honorem
Feb 2014
8,303
Colonia Valensiana
Valens, that's exactly why president Macron has less problems, has less to worry than others with it's popularity rate: he wasn't popular when he was elected, he didn't represented the "hopes"/"ideals"/"wishes of a significant part of French.

Honestly, why should I resign if I have 3% more not trusting me adding to the 64% not trusting me initially?
That sums it up well, I suppose.