The "Gilets Jaunes" in France: a revolution unfolding in front of our eyes ?

deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
12,502
Europix
#61
maybe I should just go Euro Disney instead, I am sure my boy would love it.
and then invite him at a big mac & cola in a MacDuh ?!?

Go to Amiens.

See the cathedral from inside: none of You will ever forget it.

Then go and spend Your money at the "Carnet de Voyages" shop (it's right at the corner of the cathedral), then go on the other side of the place to the Tourist Info and buy You a couple of good photo albums, from there You can go down in the St Leu to wander a bit and eat something, and You can visit the Samara Park: and You and Your kid will just love it.

It's cheaper, and it's French.
 

Iraq Bruin

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
4,770
DC
#62
and then invite him at a big mac & cola in a MacDuh ?!?

Go to Amiens.

See the cathedral from inside: none of You will ever forget it.

Then go and spend Your money at the "Carnet de Voyages" shop (it's right at the corner of the cathedral), then go on the other side of the place to the Tourist Info and buy You a couple of good photo albums, from there You can go down in the St Leu to wander a bit and eat something, and You can visit the Samara Park: and You and Your kid will just love it.

It's cheaper, and it's French.
That is a very tempting proposal, I might actually do it.

I was trying to avoid Disney if I could but I think I am out voted on that, I will use the above pitch to get my equal share. :D
 

Baldtastic

Ad Honorem
Aug 2009
5,037
Londinium
#63
That is a very tempting proposal, I might actually do it.

I was trying to avoid Disney if I could but I think I am out voted on that, I will use the above pitch to get my equal share. :D
I mentioned Reims earlier and that's also nice for a day trip - although I'm not sure on trains etc. Joan d'arc is buried there and it was the site of French coronations for hundreds of years...it's also the capital of the Champagne region ;)

I like DT's suggestion but just in case you wanted to get out Paris, and you like to mix Champagne and history, Reims might work out very well!
 

deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
12,502
Europix
#64
I mentioned Reims earlier and that's also nice for a day trip - although I'm not sure on trains etc. Joan d'arc is buried there and it was the site of French coronations for hundreds of years...it's also the capital of the Champagne region ;)

I like DT's suggestion but just in case you wanted to get out Paris, and you like to mix Champagne and history, Reims might work out very well!
If some of You fear the inconvenient of a riot in Paris, it's clearly that You never confronted the cohorts of tourists making selfies in front of Mona Lisa. I, for myself, I'd rather choose "gilets jaunes" (or verts, or red, any colour in fact): I have more chances than confronting the tourist groups ...

Now, that we're deviating: often "small places" are more interesting than big, renowned ones. You often see and feel much better the "soul", the "spirit" of the people. As Baldastic said, it can be Champagne, Reims: magnificient!
 

Iraq Bruin

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
4,770
DC
#65
I mentioned Reims earlier and that's also nice for a day trip - although I'm not sure on trains etc. Joan d'arc is buried there and it was the site of French coronations for hundreds of years...it's also the capital of the Champagne region ;)

I like DT's suggestion but just in case you wanted to get out Paris, and you like to mix Champagne and history, Reims might work out very well!
I will check Reims for sure.
If some of You fear the inconvenient of a riot in Paris, it's clearly that You never confronted the cohorts of tourists making selfies in front of Mona Lisa. I, for myself, I'd rather choose "gilets jaunes" (or verts, or red, any colour in fact): I have more chances than confronting the tourist groups ...

Now, that we're deviating: often "small places" are more interesting than big, renowned ones. You often see and feel much better the "soul", the "spirit" of the people. As Baldastic said, it can be Champagne, Reims: magnificient!
Oh yes, I call it living history, it is where you feel the history in the people, in the streets, in the food and drinks. I prefer it over standing in line for hours or going into tours inside museums (unless I know it really is worth the wait)
 

Willempie

Ad Honorem
Jul 2015
4,330
Netherlands
#66
Firstly we're talking about the 2016 election and the Florida example doesn't really work because most of the irregularities there seem to favor the right and not the evil left. The recount in the early 2000's was a big reason for Bush election and the recount that's happening now seems to be because there is cause to believe the Democrats were cheated out of votes. Whether that's true or not remains up in the air.
Florida counting certainly doesn't favor the right over the left. It entirely depends on the county in question. The current counting problem were in districts run by democrats (not surprising since the reps won).
And I certainly do remember the same people making a fuzz about Trump not answering if he would abide by the 2016 result, keep going about a Russian collusion.
The many judges being removed always struck me as Wilders have some cunning lawyers. But remember that Knoops is indeed successfully which means that Wilders is provided the means to provide better circumstances for himself. That sounds pretty reasonable to me.
You don't get a judge removal easily. You have to show that judges aren't being fair. Iirc there are about 20 judge removals in a year.
That it is possible to have so many removals in two cases about free speech is very telling, since this wasn't handled by forum dwellers or traffic court judges. And it gives me the creeps to think about other cases where a lot depends on interpretation.
Halsema also happens to be one of the most successful leaders of the biggest party in Amsterdam at the moment who's abilities were pretty highly regarded. Lets not forget that. And sure, not everything Baudet says is crazy but we both know he chose the word ''cartel'' because of the vaguely criminal undertones as well as the opportunity to deprive legitimacy of everyone but himself.
Well point me to one thing in Halsema's CV which may help at being mayor.
Cartel is the right word, since it about jobs and decision making being limited to a couple of parties. Similar to the 18th century.
Wir Shaffen das translate to ''We CAN do this'', ''we CAN handle this''. It doesn't mean ''We all want this and every single person in Germany is on board with this'' Despite her many runs as chancellor and despite being bigger than her competition Merkel has never said that she alone has legitimacy. I don't recall her ever describing the whole of German politics as a fake parliament or that she's the only one who could possibly understand the common man. Sure she can say she has the authority to act on behalf of the whole county....because she does, she's the head of government. But having the authority to acts on behalf of the country is not the same as the populist claim that the alone represent the people.
You can't really give a direct translation. "We will handle this" may be better. And she was speaking as the leader of the country. It wasn't some speech in parliament or some such.
And obviously a government representative isn't going to talk about a fake parliament when they have the majority there. But wait what happens when populists (or other "wrong" ones) are in charge. Just ask the Greeks or Berlusconi.
If the media is just an extension of the establishment then they would logically leave the establishment alone and yet they don't. Clinton's dirty laundry was dutifully aired in the full knowledge that her mistakes would stick to her and Trumps mistakes not having the same impact on him. And here Nieuwsuur has dutifully reported the findings that let to a massacre of ministers in Rutte II. America is indeed a bit of a freakshow but again, Clinton's mistakes were aired just as Trump's. The main reason the populists love making an enemy of the media is because it helps sell their ''underdog nature''. But there's also a more insidious reason. The media is often called the fourth estate because it monitors, checks and reviews the one in power which is bad news for those that put themselves before the state. Lets not be naive, a man like Erdogan knows that introducing the same system in Turkey that's failing all over the middle east is a bad idea, he just doesn't want his voters to know it and the same goes for all men like him.
The difference being that the Clinton stuff gets out after some investigation (and Obama got an overall free pass), whereas anything which is negatively associated to Trump is published before the ink is dry.

As a recent example: NPR Blatantly Lies About Donald Trump Jr.'s 2017 Senate Testimony
Knowingly misquoting from public records, make a nasty story about it and then retract only after the other media channels have also aired it. It happens too often to attribute it to incompetence.
 

Willempie

Ad Honorem
Jul 2015
4,330
Netherlands
#67
I'm french, here's my two cents.
Yes, it's true, riots, protests, strikes, are quite usual things here.
Still, this time, it's a bit different.
First, it's totally spontanous, without any syndicate/union behind it, it's very, very popular, and across political borders and corporations.
The deep thing behind it is that a political system cannot last very long with 20% of aproval/support.
People here are waiting for a providential man, a new De Gaulle or Bonaparte. Some even ask for a general to make a putch.
The main thing that the crowd want is simple as that: get rid of Macron.
The president, since decades, is only elected to be used as a punchin-ball. It may have to do with the scapegoat of René Girard's philosophy. It surely has to do with the concept of legitimacy. People who has the money and the network can be elected, but when you look deeper at their electors, they are often very few to be convinced by them. People today don't vote, or vote for far-left or far-right, and most often only the old people (50% of the electoral body) vote "en masse" for the center party. People have tried right, then left, then right, then left again... but are still disappointed. They feel betrayed and despised. It's like the upper class has made a kind of secession. People are just trying to pushing them out.
It's not 1789, or 1830, or 1848, or 1870, or 1968, or anything else. It's the smoke of last decades boiling cauldron. Today, it has no leader or precise direction, so it's difficult to see any political outcome. Still it's the first time for me that I think that, maybe, it's not totally irrational to think that the president will not last for the four next years. I still think he will, but I cannot say thinking that he will have to leave is totally irrelevent.
I tend to agree with this analysis.
Plus usually striking season in France is in summer, so it must be spontaneous ;)
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
12,420
#69
I will check Reims for sure.


Oh yes, I call it living history, it is where you feel the history in the people, in the streets, in the food and drinks. I prefer it over standing in line for hours or going into tours inside museums (unless I know it really is worth the wait)
Try the "Loire Valley Chateaux"... Its only a couple of hours drive from Paris with a variety of different chateaux used as summer residences by the nobility and even one which was a gift to Leonardo da Vinci after he designed the "double revolution staircase" (a staircase that allows to people to climb from opposite directions seeing but never crossing each other) of the largest chateau "Chambord".. In the area theres is also an interesting zoo with unique animals (white tigers, white lions , etc....)

Châteaux of the Loire Valley

The best chateaux of the Loire Valley, France
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
12,420
#70
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Florida counting certainly doesn't favor the right over the left. It entirely depends on the county in question. The current counting problem were in districts run by democrats (not surprising since the reps won).
And I certainly do remember the same people making a fuzz about Trump not answering if he would abide by the 2016 result, keep going about a Russian collusion.
.
Re voter fraud it is more something like this that is a concern, i.e. people not allowed to vote, voting anyway

Prison-bound? Grand Prairie mom sentenced to 8 years for illegal voting loses appeal