The "Gilets Jaunes" in France: a revolution unfolding in front of our eyes ?

Aug 2009
5,033
Londinium
#71
If some of You fear the inconvenient of a riot in Paris, it's clearly that You never confronted the cohorts of tourists making selfies in front of Mona Lisa. I, for myself, I'd rather choose "gilets jaunes" (or verts, or red, any colour in fact): I have more chances than confronting the tourist groups ...
The Mona Lisa has little interest for me, I've been warned by others to avoid it unless I have a burning love of art (which I dont!). That said, I would still feel more comfortable among the tourists queuing for a selfie with the Mona Lisa than the protesters, perhaps because I dont speak French, or perhaps because I dont want to get in between the Police and them!

Now, that we're deviating: often "small places" are more interesting than big, renowned ones. You often see and feel much better the "soul", the "spirit" of the people. As Baldastic said, it can be Champagne, Reims: magnificient!
Out of the 22 countries I've been to, there is one universal tip - always avoid the capital city if you can, or limit your time there as much as possible...and I say that as a proud Londoner! :) I've been to 5 French cities/towns before and only visiting Paris because it annoys me that I've not been, same reason I want to visit Madrid (7 Spanish cities/towns but not their capital!).
 
Jul 2012
2,408
Benin City, Nigeria
#73
People here are waiting for a providential man, a new De Gaulle or Bonaparte. Some even ask for a general to make a putch.
Out of curiosity, are any of the demonstrators/rioters among the French people asking for the reinstatement of the rightful, legitimate head of state of France: the heir to the Bourbon dynasty of France?

Is there any call for a resurrection of the Kingdom of France in this movement?
 
Oct 2010
4,764
DC
#74
Try the "Loire Valley Chateaux"... Its only a couple of hours drive from Paris with a variety of different chateaux used as summer residences by the nobility and even one which was a gift to Leonardo da Vinci after he designed the "double revolution staircase" (a staircase that allows to people to climb from opposite directions seeing but never crossing each other) of the largest chateau "Chambord".. In the area theres is also an interesting zoo with unique animals (white tigers, white lions , etc....)

Châteaux of the Loire Valley

The best chateaux of the Loire Valley, France
I will add it to the list for sure, I like to pack my list, it is better to feel that I have more to do than to look for things to do and see while there.

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Re voter fraud it is more something like this that is a concern, i.e. people not allowed to vote, voting anyway

Prison-bound? Grand Prairie mom sentenced to 8 years for illegal voting loses appeal
I do not worry about voter fraud, I actually feel concerned about district packing through (redistricting) and (increasing/decreasing district count for states through welcoming illegal immigrants, thus giving some citizens more voting power than others but our USSC disagrees) but that is not a discussion for this thread anyway.

The Mona Lisa has little interest for me, I've been warned by others to avoid it unless I have a burning love of art (which I dont!). That said, I would still feel more comfortable among the tourists queuing for a selfie with the Mona Lisa than the protesters, perhaps because I dont speak French, or perhaps because I dont want to get in between the Police and them!
I do not speak french and I should agree :D
Out of the 22 countries I've been to, there is one universal tip - always avoid the capital city if you can, or limit your time there as much as possible...and I say that as a proud Londoner! :) I've been to 5 French cities/towns before and only visiting Paris because it annoys me that I've not been, same reason I want to visit Madrid (7 Spanish cities/towns but not their capital!).
As someone who lived in a Capital city for all of my life (except for 5 years), I tend to agree. I make a point of going out of the capital cities as Much as I can. In fact I plan to visit very small countries and/or city states in the future.

I have lived in DC for a long time now but it rarely interested me to go sightseeing (especially history and museums) the way out of towners do when they visit (and crowd the streets and metro :rolleyes:)
 
Jan 2011
12,399
#75
Out of curiosity, are any of the demonstrators/rioters among the French people asking for the reinstatement of the rightful, legitimate head of state of France: the heir to the Bourbon dynasty of France?

Is there any call for a resurrection of the Kingdom of France in this movement?
No.... the monarchists have always been a tiny group......
 
Apr 2012
953
The Netherlands
#77
Florida counting certainly doesn't favor the right over the left. It entirely depends on the county in question. The current counting problem were in districts run by democrats (not surprising since the reps won).
And I certainly do remember the same people making a fuzz about Trump not answering if he would abide by the 2016 result, keep going about a Russian collusion.
True that is a bit of a disconnected. However they haven't been shouting it from day one and with plenty of Trumps men being under investigation there is at least a merit to the thought.

Well point me to one thing in Halsema's CV which may help at being mayor.
Cartel is the right word, since it about jobs and decision making being limited to a couple of parties. Similar to the 18th century.
Well I suppose I'm terribly confused about why her time as a political leader isn't one. She used to be a politician and being a mayor is a political job. Furthermore she was a leading figure in the party that's currently leading the coalition in Amsterdam. Political experience, ties to local politicians and generally cordial relations with most (non populist) political parties seem like pretty useful traits for a mayor to have. And while I wouldn't make her the mayor of Katwijk or Urk she does fit the general view that Amsterdam has of itself as fairly left wing, progressive and green.

And you may be using outdated information. Its been a pretty big thing in the news that the elected mayor is coming closer and closer. And its not the populists driving this change but the cold and elitist D66 with the other parties being either in favor or at least willing to entertain the thought even when the aren't. That's something of a dent on this image of a cruel and probably criminal cartel that's hogging all the power and refuses to change its ways.

You can't really give a direct translation. "We will handle this" may be better. And she was speaking as the leader of the country. It wasn't some speech in parliament or some such.
And obviously a government representative isn't going to talk about a fake parliament when they have the majority there. But wait what happens when populists (or other "wrong" ones) are in charge. Just ask the Greeks or Berlusconi.
But that still makes it another thing entirely. Merkel isn't denying the legitimacy of anyone but herself with wir Shaffen Das. She might be woefully optimistic when saying it but its still not the same trick, if it can even be called as such. And ''Fake parliament' isn't the only way to deny legitimacy. Merkel could go around claiming that her elections and her lead over her peers give her an unique insight into the people and that she alone understands them because of this, but she doesn't and it would be silly if she did because the Grunne or SPD voters are still part of ''the people'' and they think differently from her or the AFD people. The electorate is too large to be claimed by one party, that's why most serious politicians don't make such claims.

And the Greek or Italian situations isn't exactly the same either. Remember that the populist deny the legitimacy of everyone but themselves. Left, right and center are all part of a fake parliament and they are all a bunch of elitists in cahoots to screw over the common man. Now a party can deny the populists and generally do but if they do they deny only the populists while the populists often imply or state that only the populists are to be believed in. That's quite a difference. If you deny the populists you still have left wing parties, right wing parties, liberals, conservatives, moderates, monarchists, commies, hipsters or pirates. But a populist denying everyone else leaves only the populists.
 
Jul 2015
4,328
Netherlands
#78
True that is a bit of a disconnected. However they haven't been shouting it from day one and with plenty of Trumps men being under investigation there is at least a merit to the thought.
Most of what I see is perjury entrapment (which warrants a separate discussion as imo that is abuse of power) or stuff unrelated to politics.
Well I suppose I'm terribly confused about why her time as a political leader isn't one. She used to be a politician and being a mayor is a political job. Furthermore she was a leading figure in the party that's currently leading the coalition in Amsterdam. Political experience, ties to local politicians and generally cordial relations with most (non populist) political parties seem like pretty useful traits for a mayor to have. And while I wouldn't make her the mayor of Katwijk or Urk she does fit the general view that Amsterdam has of itself as fairly left wing, progressive and green.
All that is relational management. While useful, hardly helps at the main tasks of a mayor. A mayor isn't (or rather shouldn't) be a political leader. She made her first f-up already...
We are not talking some village, we are talking the capital, which has security concerns ranging from the next Ajax match to burglaries and terror threats.
There is nothing on her CV that would get her the job under normal circumstances. C.V. - Femke Halsema
It is in English.
And you may be using outdated information. Its been a pretty big thing in the news that the elected mayor is coming closer and closer. And its not the populists driving this change but the cold and elitist D66 with the other parties being either in favor or at least willing to entertain the thought even when the aren't. That's something of a dent on this image of a cruel and probably criminal cartel that's hogging all the power and refuses to change its ways.
Closer and closer? So far all that is decided is to remove the procedure from the constitution. Nothing and I mean literally nothing is in the works of actually changing the procedure. As a bonus the referendum is completely gone and anything that reeks of change to the status quo gets stuck in a drawer somewhere.
But that still makes it another thing entirely. Merkel isn't denying the legitimacy of anyone but herself with wir Shaffen Das. She might be woefully optimistic when saying it but its still not the same trick, if it can even be called as such. And ''Fake parliament' isn't the only way to deny legitimacy. Merkel could go around claiming that her elections and her lead over her peers give her an unique insight into the people and that she alone understands them because of this, but she doesn't and it would be silly if she did because the Grunne or SPD voters are still part of ''the people'' and they think differently from her or the AFD people. The electorate is too large to be claimed by one party, that's why most serious politicians don't make such claims.
Nope it was a very clear statement with which she supposedly represented the country.
And she made more statements such as "if the Euro fails, Europe fails" etc.
And the Greek or Italian situations isn't exactly the same either. Remember that the populist deny the legitimacy of everyone but themselves. Left, right and center are all part of a fake parliament and they are all a bunch of elitists in cahoots to screw over the common man. Now a party can deny the populists and generally do but if they do they deny only the populists while the populists often imply or state that only the populists are to be believed in. That's quite a difference. If you deny the populists you still have left wing parties, right wing parties, liberals, conservatives, moderates, monarchists, commies, hipsters or pirates. But a populist denying everyone else leaves only the populists.
No that is what you make of it.
One of the problems is that in Europe many governments have a small majority and that small majority is whipped to follow the government line. This way you get policies that are supported only by a subset of the government supporters, but get passed nonetheless.
And yes in those cases you have a fake parliament, where the only rationale you get from the gov parties is that "it was in the gov agreement".

Populists as I see it want better representation. As such you can find them on the left, right and center as their outlook on policies can differ. You could call Trump and Wilders one, but also Grillo.
 
Jul 2009
9,374
#80
Funny how being swept to power on a wave of 'populism' can all go pear shaped!
Aside from obvious pear shaped physical characteristics (;)), a populist being "swept to power" is frequently just another demagogue, who gets the chance to be the criminal sociopath the person has always been in an official capacity. "I won. I can do whatever I want as I have always done, and nobody cares because I won." :money: