The Goa Inquisition

Devdas

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Apr 2015
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India
They did persecute Saint Thomas Christians in Kerala, where they were present from maybe more than a millenium ago.
People in Kerala don't keep a good view about Vasco da Gama. There is even a Malayalam movie named Urumi where Vasco da Gama is portrayed as the main villain of the movie and a ruthless invader.
 

Tulius

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May 2016
5,877
Portugal
People in Kerala don't keep a good view about Vasco da Gama. There is even a Malayalam movie named Urumi where Vasco da Gama is portrayed as the main villain of the movie and a ruthless invader.
And yet the persecutions of the Saint Thomas Christians in Kerala begun after his dead.

Seeing characters like Vasco da Gama and Columbus like villains and ruthless invaders is currently a trend. Not that Vasco da Gama invaded much but he was quite a ruthless character.
 

Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,856
India
And yet the persecutions of the Saint Thomas Christians in Kerala begun after his dead.

Seeing characters like Vasco da Gama and Columbus like villains and ruthless invaders is currently a trend. Not that Vasco da Gama invaded much but he was quite a ruthless character.
Vasco da Gama has his own share of bloodshed on Indian coast as Portuguese have to snatch and dominate over already existing spice trade.
 

betgo

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Jul 2011
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A small percentage of Indians were already Christians and obviously not Protestant and the Portuguese persecuted them as heretics.

The British did a better job of fitting into existing Indian society, accepting peoples' religions and working with the upper castes.
 
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Tulius

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May 2016
5,877
Portugal
Vasco da Gama has his own share of bloodshed on Indian coast as Portuguese have to snatch and dominate over already existing spice trade.
No doubts. Empires were never built with flowers. And Vasco da Gama was a relevant character in that construction. The Portuguese that went to India were initially hard men, used to fight the Muslims in Morocco, or to fight in the seas as corsairs. Then many, in some way like Vasco da Gama, still had the sense of a crusader, that god was on their side. Anyway, like I said the persecution in Kerala append much later.

A small percentage of Indians were already Christians and obviously not Protestant and the Portuguese persecuted them as heretics.

The British did a better job of fitting into existing Indian society, accepting peoples' religions and working with the upper castes.
You are comparing the Portuguese in the 16th and 17th centuries with the English (and British) in the later 18th and 19th. Different times, different realities.

But the Dutch and then the English also had some paths opened. They weren’t blind as the first that arrived and they didn’t had religious goals. The Portuguese gave up Bombay (and Tangiers) to the English as the dowry of Catarina de Bragança in her wedding with Charles II. Later, the king then made a deal with the English East Indian Company.
 

rvsakhadeo

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Sep 2012
9,212
India
Got it! We were talking about different things. Goa’s inquisition is not only about Goa, as you seem to be speaking only about Goa itself.

Goa was the capital of all the Portuguese India, and was not confined to the present Goa or even the Republic of India present owned territories. Macao was under it, as Ormuz, Malacca, the fortresses on the East African Coast, Moluccas, Timor…

That meant that the religious institutions had the same reasoning, such as the diocese and the Inquisition.

The borders that exist today between the Indian states, such as Goa, Karnataka and Kerala didn’t exist at the time.
Goa was a Portuguese colony, liberated by the Indian Army around Nov.1961 from which date it has become a part of India. Yet it did exist as a rich, cultured, separate Hindu majority region in medieval India, although not under this very name. Portuguese colonised this region from the time of Vasco De Gama, IIRC.
 
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Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,877
Portugal
Goa was a Portuguese colony, liberated by the Indian Army around Nov.1961 from which date it has become a part of India. Yet it did exist as a rich, cultured, separate Hindu majority region in medieval India, although not under this very name. Portuguese colonised this region from the time of Vasco De Gama, IIRC.
Goa was conquered in 1510 by Afonso de Albuquerque, with support of the pirate Timoja. Vasco da Gama was still alive at the time, but he was in Portugal, away from the business of the Orient, mainly due the relative failures and his behaviours of his two first voyages, particularly the second one in 1502/3. When the king D. Manuel died, the new King, D. João III, send him again to India, but he died short after.
 
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Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,856
India
Goa was a Portuguese colony, liberated by the Indian Army around Nov.1961 from which date it has become a part of India. Yet it did exist as a rich, cultured, separate Hindu majority region in medieval India, although not under this very name. Portuguese colonised this region from the time of Vasco De Gama, IIRC.
Goa during Portuguese time was a poverty stricken region. People were working in mainly Indian cities like Mumbai and bringing back remittance. After the liberation, the tourism boom and remittance from the middle East brought prosperity to the region.
 
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rvsakhadeo

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Sep 2012
9,212
India
Goa during Portuguese time was a poverty stricken region. People were working in mainly Indian cities like Mumbai and bringing back remittance. After the liberation, the tourism boom and remittance from the middle East brought prosperity to the region.
True. There was no tourism at all in the colonial days.
 

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,333
You are comparing the Portuguese in the 16th and 17th centuries with the English (and British) in the later 18th and 19th. Different times, different realities.

But the Dutch and then the English also had some paths opened. They weren’t blind as the first that arrived and they didn’t had religious goals. The Portuguese gave up Bombay (and Tangiers) to the English as the dowry of Catarina de Bragança in her wedding with Charles II. Later, the king then made a deal with the English East Indian Company.
Yeh, amazing how Portugal was able to develop an overseas empire in 1500 or so and conquer part of India. The distance must have been something like 15,000 kilometers by sea.

Yes, it is possible the British, French, and Dutch learned from mistakes of the early colonial efforts.

Britain was able to conquer most of India and a lot of the rest of the world using an indirect approach. Britain would use puppet local rulers, existing institutions, and quasi republican institutions. This partly reflects the limited monarchy in Britain and early approaches in Ireland with a bunch of little semi-countries under the English king.

Attitudes towards religion were different later on, but it is a contrast how Britain had a close relationship with the Catholic Church in Quebec to how Portugal had a hostile relationship with existing Indian Christians.
 
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