The Goa Inquisition

Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,856
India
Yeh, amazing how Portugal was able to develop an overseas empire in 1500 or so and conquer part of India. The distance must have been something like 15,000 kilometers by sea.

Yes, it is possible the British, French, and Dutch learned from mistakes of the early colonial efforts.

Britain was able to conquer most of India and a lot of the rest of the world using an indirect approach. Britain would use puppet local rulers, existing institutions, and quasi republican institutions. This partly reflects the limited monarchy in Britain and early approaches in Ireland with a bunch of little semi-countries under the English king.

Attitudes towards religion were different later on, but it is a contrast how Britain had a close relationship with the Catholic Church in Quebec to how Portugal had a hostile relationship with existing Indian Christians.
British lacked religious zeal to convert Indians, so some of the regional warlords were ready to cooperate with him. Secondly, when Portuguese arrived the Mughals were very powerful back then, while the British conquest is India was triggered by faltering Mughal empire and India getting controlled by many regional warlords.
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,877
Portugal
Yeh, amazing how Portugal was able to develop an overseas empire in 1500 or so and conquer part of India. The distance must have been something like 15,000 kilometers by sea.

Yes, it is possible the British, French, and Dutch learned from mistakes of the early colonial efforts.
Yes, the Dutch had “spies” such as Jan Huygen van Linshoten or Cornelis de Houtman. Linshoten’s work was published and translated to several languages (English, French, Latin…) and was particularly damaging to the Portuguese Empire.

Britain was able to conquer most of India and a lot of the rest of the world using an indirect approach. Britain would use puppet local rulers, existing institutions, and quasi republican institutions. This partly reflects the limited monarchy in Britain and early approaches in Ireland with a bunch of little semi-countries under the English king.
That approach was also followed by Portugal in the East. Local rulers would give men, ships and… tributes. Most of the feitorias and fortress were build on friendly lands.

Attitudes towards religion were different later on, but it is a contrast how Britain had a close relationship with the Catholic Church in Quebec to how Portugal had a hostile relationship with existing Indian Christians.
Yes, but here you are talking about the second half of the 18th century. Not the 16th and first half of the 17th. By the 18th century the religious zeal of the Portuguese had lowered substantially, to the point of being allied with the British heretics and even Catarina de Bragança married King Charles II, in the middle 17th century. That would be unthinkable in the 16th.

We can compare the 17th Portuguese Zeal and religious attitudes with the 17th century Dutch. But the Dutch were a Trade Company, profit was the main motif, while the Portuguese were mostly on king’s business, and the religious and crusader goals had not been entirely forgotten.
 

Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,856
India
Attitudes towards religion were different later on, but it is a contrast how Britain had a close relationship with the Catholic Church in Quebec to how Portugal had a hostile relationship with existing Indian Christians.
Portuguese wanted them to follow their brand of Catholicism, however, many of them did convert to Catholicism under Portuguese influence, other resisted who today exists as a strong Oriental Orthodox community in Malabar.
 

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,333
Yes, but here you are talking about the second half of the 18th century. Not the 16th and first half of the 17th. By the 18th century the religious zeal of the Portuguese had lowered substantially, to the point of being allied with the British heretics and even Catarina de Bragança married King Charles II, in the middle 17th century. That would be unthinkable in the 16th.
Maybe off topic, but Charles II was supported by Catholic countries and Catholics in the British Isles against the Puritans, and it isn't totally clear what his real religion was. Spain was also trying to marry a Spanish princess to him. English royal marriage to Catholics was eventually banned because of the problems it caused.

The renewal of alliance between England and Portugal with the marriage may have eventually led to British India as you imply. However, it was important to maintaining Portuguese independence.

Catarina did not have the best experience in England. She was unable to have children and was a devout Catholic when she could have played that down. She was not the most powerful or the best known now woman at court. There was talk of Charles II divorcing her to produce an heir. Of course, that would have looked really bad and any heir's claim would have been disputed by his brother who became James II.
 
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Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,877
Portugal
English royal marriage to Catholics was eventually banned because of the problems it caused.

[…]

There was talk of Charles II divorcing her to produce an heir.
This I didn’t knew.

The renewal of alliance between England and Portugal with the marriage may have eventually led to British India as you imply.
England would have been there sooner or later, but the information gathered by the Dutch and passed to the English (and to all), and the having Bombay for free gave some help. Even so the two empires clashed in the Indian Ocean, mostly before 1640. For instance in 1622 the Persians conquered Ormuz to the Portuguese with English support.

However, it was important to maintaining Portuguese independence.
Absolutely. Portugal needed in 1640 all the help that it could find, and it was impressive that in the process it only loosed Ceuta to Spain (Castile). It reached a point that Portugal was allied with the Dutch in Europe, but was at war with them all over the world, in South America, Africa and Asia.