- Apr 2018
in reply toNyaah (thoughtful disagreement). Invincibles were things of a bygone era even then. The numbers may look similar but that's just it.
"never seen beofre , never matched at the time and never seen after Unique"Yes, "pocket battleship" is the term. It was an ingenious design by German naval architects to essentially get around the tight limitations imposed on German ships in the Treaty of Versailles. That limited Germany to 10,000 tons and no more that 11" guns. The Deutschland class ships (the eponymous, the Admiral Scheer and Graf Spee) were far more heavily armoured than British cruisers and their nine 11" and eight 6" guns gave them a formidable armament. They were faster than British battleships of the time as well. Never seen before; never matched at the time and never seen after. Unique.
Never seen before Ingenious - Maybe,in reply to
"never seen beofre , never matched at the time and never seen after Unique"
The Invincbles were pretty closee in discplancement, armamenet, armour and speed. It was harldy some totally unique never seen before ship configuration. Which was my point.
I only need one of before , during after to show the statement is problematic.Never seen before Ingenious - Maybe,
Never matched at the time - Not by a long shot, Never seen after - Come on, the world changed.
I see your point. But really, apart from those numbers there was really no similarity. Graf Spee (Deutschland class) was innovative in the sense they made it heavy enough to be considered a capital unit which enabled them to skirt around rifle Calibre limitations and yet remain within Versailles Treaty limitations at least in terms of long tonnes. It was unique in that sense. She was a WW2 warship of WW1 or prewar size.
15-16K tons was close enough for the Germans to lie about. If Graf Spee was 25K it would have been an obvious treaty violation just by looking at her.The treaty limitation was 10,000 tons. Graf spree was 15-16,000 tons. Remain within the Treaty? Not even close.
And why would anyone build something so flawed, unable to beat anything it could catch. It was incpabale of fighting any actual capital ship and unable to catch cruisers to be a cruiser killer. Too much and too expenisve for what it was. It was not some Genuis of design.
There wasn't really a winning strategy given what they had to work with..
The Germans do seem to have overlooked the scenario that did in Graf Spee - being ganged up on by two or three ships who could beat her in both speed and combined firepower.