The greatest example of "the strongest commander VS the weakest commander"

Which pair is the greatest example of "the strongest commander VS the weakest commander"

  • Napoleon Bonaparte VS Johann Peter Beaulieu

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Napoleon Bonaparte VS Karl Mack von Leiberich

    Votes: 9 36.0%
  • Frederick the Great VS Charles of Lorraine

    Votes: 3 12.0%
  • Yamashita Tomoyuki VS Arthur Percival

    Votes: 1 4.0%
  • Robert the Bruce VS Edward II

    Votes: 2 8.0%
  • Georgy Zhukov VS Frederich Paulus

    Votes: 1 4.0%
  • Albert Kesselring VS Mark Clark

    Votes: 1 4.0%
  • Erwin Rommel VS Lloyd Fredendall

    Votes: 1 4.0%
  • Robert Lee VS George McClellan

    Votes: 3 12.0%
  • Issac Brock + Tecumseu VS William Hull

    Votes: 1 4.0%
  • other ideas (please specific)

    Votes: 3 12.0%

  • Total voters
    25
May 2013
1,720
The abode of the lord of the north
#32
So back in early 16th centure India, in kerala, there was the emerging imperial state of Calicut and the relatively smaller semi-feudal kingdom of cochin. Relation between the both grew sour over centuries starting from 13th century when Zamorin of calicut would forcefully cease a place in the vicinity of the state of 'Perumbadappu' (Later known as Cochin). In subsequent years, Zamorin launched several small scale attacks on cochin and eventually reached the capital city once, though advent of monsoons made sure Zamorin had to return. Zamorin vouched he will come back to raze the city for good.

Contemporary period saw the relation between Zamorin and Portugese turn bitter. Portugese made multiple alliances with Cochin and finally Zamorin started marching his troops as soon as the 5th Portugese Armada had left Cochin harbor for Portugal. Cochin was practically defenseless except for 150 portugese men, 4 portugese ships and their commander Duarte Pacheco Perreira. He along with a handful of Cochinese Nairs massacred the Calicut army of about 80,000 strong and over 300 ships, Is perhaps one of the greatest examples of how to use your strength well to neutralize enemy numbers :)

Battle of Cochin (1504) - Wikipedia

Perhaps one of the best examples were the badly-outnumbered side tasted decisive victory in battles!
 
May 2013
1,720
The abode of the lord of the north
#33
So back in early 16th centure India, in kerala, there was the emerging imperial state of Calicut and the relatively smaller semi-feudal kingdom of cochin. Relation between the both grew sour over centuries starting from 13th century when Zamorin of calicut would forcefully cease a place in the vicinity of the state of 'Perumbadappu' (Later known as Cochin). In subsequent years, Zamorin launched several small scale attacks on cochin and eventually reached the capital city once, though advent of monsoons made sure Zamorin had to return. Zamorin vouched he will come back to raze the city for good.

Contemporary period saw the relation between Zamorin and Portugese turn bitter. Portugese made multiple alliances with Cochin and finally Zamorin started marching his troops as soon as the 5th Portugese Armada had left Cochin harbor for Portugal. Cochin was practically defenseless except for 150 portugese men, 4 portugese ships and their commander Duarte Pacheco Perreira. He along with a handful of Cochinese Nairs massacred the Calicut army of about 80,000 strong and over 300 ships, Is perhaps one of the greatest examples of how to use your strength well to neutralize enemy numbers :)

Battle of Cochin (1504) - Wikipedia

Perhaps one of the best examples were the badly-outnumbered side tasted decisive victory in battles!
So it was Duarto Perreira vs Whosoever the commander of Zamorin's army was
 
Aug 2015
2,359
uk
#34
Napoleon was not "the weakest commander" in 1815. Despite some setbacks and mistakes at Waterloo, he still put up a hell of a fight and almost beat Wellington before the Prussians arrived. His performance at Waterloo was certainly better than in 1812, although admittedly still rather weak compared to the brilliance of his earlier years.

I agree. His 'humbugging' of Wellington, his defeat of Blucher at Ligny and his ability to put so many men into the field at such short notice means he was far from the worst commander. However poor decision making at Ligny (not finishing off Blucher, dividing his forces), his choice of commanders (Ney!) and his woeful performance at Waterloo (a mere pounder, as Wellington said) bring in to question his ability to consistently perform in the field. At that time Wellington probably was 'the best', Napoleon was showing signs of both his best and worst qualities.
 
Aug 2011
115
The Castle Anthrax
#36
Arminius v Varus.
Varus spectacularly lost three legions at the Teutoburg Forrest in AD 6 in a one sided battle that permanently terminates Rome's German aspirations.


Crazy Horse + Sitting Bull v George Armstrong Custer.
Battle of Little Bighorn. The Sioux and Cheyenne had numbers, but Custer had epic hubris.

Genghis Khan v anyone

Attila v anyone

Hawk v Cobra Commander
Seriously, Cobra is long overdue for new leadership!
 
Last edited:
Mar 2016
768
Australia
#37
Arminius v Varus.
Varus spectacularly lost three legions at the Teutoburg Forrest in AD 6 in a one sided battle that permanently terminates Rome's German aspirations.
The Romans returned shortly afterwards and went on a rampage, sacking and burning many villages and towns. They didn't conquer it because they realised it just wasn't worth all the trouble (same with Scotland). The larger impact of Teutoburg is somewhat overrated.

Attila v anyone
Attila was decisively defeated by Flavius Aetius at the Battle of the Catalaunian Plains in 451.
 
Likes: Spike117
Aug 2011
115
The Castle Anthrax
#38
Allow me to remove my foot from my mouth about Atila...
Ok, I still maintain that battle was a massive mismatch in leadership. Varus certainly did not return. I would add to the trouble of conquering Germany, the Empire was engaged elsewhere, internal issues, so on and so on.
 
Nov 2010
7,415
Cornwall
#39
Attila was decisively defeated by Flavius Aetius at the Battle of the Catalaunian Plains in 451.
Side issue - I think he was a bit caught off guard (which is a general's fault, like Varus):

Far from home
Amazing confederation built by Aetius in among decades of division, which he surely didn't expect
Top performance by Theodoric and the Visigoths

Apart from all that.............................. :)
 

Chlodio

Ad Honorem
Aug 2016
3,521
Dispargum
#40
The only problem I have with including Catalaunian Plains in this thread is that Attila and Aetius were both above average generals. We should not include them in a list of strong commander vs weak commander mismatches.
 

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