The Hallstatt - La Tène model is definitely out !

Nov 2018
98
Idaho
Isn't this similar to the Indo-European migrations? Certainly when the steppe tribes came from wherever and arrived in Europe there were already many people of different ethnicities living there, as shown by linguistic and genetic variances among them; and those steppe migrants certainly did not come in all at once and together but instead over time and via different routes. Celts, Germanics, etc. would simply be a later example of a similar process where for military, economic, religious, etc. reasons a particular cultural traits became dominant or at least widespread.
 

authun

Ad Honorem
Aug 2011
4,674
[QUOTE="alexfritz, post: 3065005, member: 50437" 'Instead of mass migration of whole family groups, it is suggested that these migrations concerned only a small part of the community. It is assumed that the males with more depleted d18O values than the expected regional variation in d18O for the Czech Republic are concerned. Particularly, but not exclusively, those males buried as warriors appear non-local' [/QUOTE]

It is exceptionally difficult to quantify the level of migration through isotopic studies. Firstly, one has to test the graves of the actual immigrants, their children will just show up as local and secondly, we don't know what their reproduction rate was. So two immigrants can enter an area and they will be seen as non local, all their children and their children's children, will all be seen as local. Thirdly, we don't know how long they were there. If they moved on, the graveyard might be reused. These studies can confirm a migration, but it is very hard to work out the numbers.
 
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authun

Ad Honorem
Aug 2011
4,674
Certainly when the steppe tribes came from wherever and arrived in Europe there were already many people of different ethnicities living there, as shown by linguistic and genetic variances among them
That depends on when the IE peoples arrived. There was a period of rapid population growth following the onset of the neolithic but at the end of the LBK, the population crashed to levels, in some places, as low as the mesolithic. The population level remained low until the TBK when again, there was rapid growth. What is not known is whether that was the old population recovering or the influx of a new population. We know virtually nothing of the language spoken in europe before the IE period, whenever that was. We are limited to a handful of hydronyms and even then, there is a considerable debate as to whether they are pre IE or just an early form of IE.

Old European hydronymy - Wikipedia
 
Likes: Hipparchist
Nov 2018
98
Idaho
That depends on when the IE peoples arrived. There was a period of rapid population growth following the onset of the neolithic but at the end of the LBK, the population crashed to levels, in some places, as low as the mesolithic. The population level remained low until the TBK when again, there was rapid growth. What is not known is whether that was the old population recovering or the influx of a new population. We know virtually nothing of the language spoken in europe before the IE period, whenever that was. We are limited to a handful of hydronyms and even then, there is a considerable debate as to whether they are pre IE or just an early form of IE.

Old European hydronymy - Wikipedia
Given that humans survived the ice age I would be surprised if at least some humans didn't live in Europe, even if there had been a population crash.

We know virtually nothing about most of human existence! Even many very popular subjects (medieval Europe and Rome) are as much conjecture piled on top of each other as anything that can be called facts. There are many things taken for granted about these time periods that don't actually show very clearly in the written sources we have, and other than theaters and bones not a lot of intact physical evidence is left, either.
 

authun

Ad Honorem
Aug 2011
4,674
Given that humans survived the ice age I would be surprised if at least some humans didn't live in Europe, even if there had been a population crash.

just to reiterate what I wrote: "the population crashed to levels, in some places, as low as the mesolithic. The population level remained low "


We know virtually nothing about most of human existence! Even many very popular subjects (medieval Europe and Rome) are as much conjecture piled on top of each other as anything that can be called facts. There are many things taken for granted about these time periods that don't actually show very clearly in the written sources we have, and other than theaters and bones not a lot of intact physical evidence is left, either.
Even the early IE linguistics are unknown. I'll leave the genetics as this is a banned subject on these forums.
 

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