The Holodomor in Ukraine

Jun 2015
151
UK
#1
Approximately two months ago I saw a post (a new topic) on historum.com related to the Holodomor. This is an area of my interest and I decided to read all the replies related to the post.

I saw one or two replies from other members of Historum basically denying the Holodomor or pointing to other locations (such as Kuban, - also populated by Ukrainians) where mass deaths through strvation also took place.

Soon, unfortunately, the topic was deleted from the Historum site.

It was strange... does historum.com and its community deny the Holodmor i.e. extermination of millions of Ukrainians and as a result of this denial they delete posts related to the history of Ukraine, 1932-1933?

I would like to kindly bring to your attention the article in wikipedia.com and will appreciate a discussion related to the genocide of Ukrainian people, mostly during the 1932-1933:

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor]Holodomor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

I will also welcome discussions related to the book Na Velikoj Strojke
«Íà âåëèêîé ñòðîéêå».  1931 ãîäó â ÑÑÑÐ Óêðàèíöåâ áûëî áîëüøå, ÷åì ðóññêèõ. » ÑÂßÒÎÐÓÑ

stating that in 1931, there were more Ukrainians than Russians in the USSR.

One of the aspects of the Holodomor was the organized by Moscow government relocation of Russian peasants in the homes of the dead Ukrainians.
https://ukraine.d3.ru/obnarodovany-...sskimi-kolkhoznikami-posle-golodomora-737512/
 
Jun 2015
151
UK
#5
I found several interesting elements in the thread "Why Germany, UK and France didnt recognize Holodomor as genocide?"

One of the replies is referring to "Raphael Lemkin who was the first to define genocide, got it included in the official indictments at Nuremburg in 1945, and who died too early in 1959. He did describe the Holodomor as a genocide. Lemkin saw genocide as the politically motivated physical extermination of a group or part of a group."

I would say, this is an expert (or The Expert opinion).

Another reference in the same thread is correctly linking the genocide with the decision of the Moscow government to punish Ukrainians for their denial of the collective farm system.

Others refer to a deeper history when Ukraine fought against Moscovia, when Ukraine could come out from the Moscow control. Yet, others refer to the desire of Moscovite territory to change their Golden Hordes history to a more prestigious Kiev Rus history.

One person mentioned that during the last 400 years the Russian government prohibited Ukrainian language approximately 140 times. Another person gave the following example: in 1918-1919 Ukrainian army fought against the Red Army sent by Moscow "to kill Ukrainians".
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Mar 2015
682
Southern Brazil
#6
Just popped up to say hi and make you go mad as I deny it.

Read Fraud, Famine and Fascism, The Ukranian Genocide Myth from Hitler to Harvard.

Also, go play some war games, even the most basic one gives you the "create casus belli" option :suspicious:
 

beorna

Ad Honoris
Jan 2010
17,473
-
#7
Just popped up to say hi and make you go mad as I deny it.

Read Fraud, Famine and Fascism, The Ukranian Genocide Myth from Hitler to Harvard.

Also, go play some war games, even the most basic one gives you the "create casus belli" option :suspicious:
put the book to the place it belongs, the dustbin
 
Jan 2013
5,835
Canberra, Australia
#8
stating that in 1931, there were more Ukrainians than Russians in the USSR.
That is most certainly untrue.

One of the aspects of the Holodomor was the organized by Moscow government relocation of Russian peasants in the homes of the dead Ukrainians.
That is also untrue.

Ethnic Russian peasants had been living in the eastern and southern parts of Ukraine since that region was first colonised in the late 18th Century, after the conquest of those areas from the Ottoman Empire. That colonisation was carried by Ukrainian settlers bought from the west and Russian settlers brought from the north.

The famine on 1932-33 was most severe in the eastern and southern parts of Ukraine, the main agricultural areas, and many ethnic Russian peasants living in those areas fell victim to it, along with Ukrainian peasants.

The idea that the large ethnic Russian population presently living in Eastern and Southern Ukraine was brought in after the Ukrainian population was decimated by the famine of 1932-33 is a falsehood peddled by Ukrainian nationalist extremists.

Another reference in the same thread is correctly linking the genocide with the decision of the Moscow government to punish Ukrainians for their denial of the collective farm system.
The famine of 1932-33 was certainly engineered by the Soviet Government to break the resistance of the peasant population to collectivisation, but it was not directed solely at peasants of Ukrainian ethnicity. The famine also hit peasants in the North Caucasus area.

Essentially, peasant resistance was strongest in the major food-producing areas, Ukraine and the North Caucasus, and those were the areas where the famine was engineered by seizing food. As a result, large number of non-Ukrainians also died.

For example, in Kazakhstan the mortality of the ethnic Kazakhs was much higher than that in Ukraine.
 
Jun 2015
151
UK
#9
Hi, Michael :)
I am well aware of your position and I was expecting something like that :)
" a falsehood peddled by Ukrainian nationalist extremists" - well... regretfully ... this is a low point of you position.

Before making these claims, please do your due diligence by studying migration of Russian peasants (mostly on trains) from Kursk Oblast'... These are recently declassified documents presented on the Internet (I gave a reference) and in the Holodomor museum in Kiev.

I understand you live in Australia :) When the last time you visited Kiev? :)

With respect to the famine directed solely at Ukrainian peasants - I would also recommend you to seach for Lenin's and Stalin's statemets such as "We can loose Ukraine" and Marshal Zhukov statement (around 1943) "the more Ukrainians will drown in Dneper - the better" and similar statements made by the Moscow government to better understand its policy towards Ukrainian population.
 

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