The Jesus-Pilate-Scene in Mk 15 - just an illogical Fairy Tale?

PMB

Mar 2018
41
USA
The persecution of Jesus in the gospel might be a portrait of the persecution against Chiristians in general and represents the feud between Christians and Jews that is also found in the events that led to Hipatia's death, and is consistent with those who claim the persecutions were more regional than imperial and moved by local religious conflicts with other denominations.
Jesus was not a Christian , he was a walking preaching jewish rabbi according to the scriptures, and he was crucified between 2 thiefs, perhaps we should suspect Rome cleaned out their prisons before the Sabbath in Judah.
 

Yôḥānān

Ad Honorem
Feb 2012
3,888
Portugal
Jesus was not a Christian , he was a walking preaching jewish rabbi according to the scriptures, and he was crucified between 2 thiefs, perhaps we should suspect Rome cleaned out their prisons before the Sabbath in Judah.
It is not mentioned in that quote that Jesus was a Christian.
 

PMB

Mar 2018
41
USA
It is not mentioned in that quote that Jesus was a Christian.
Sure it was, there was no such thing as Christians at the time of the gospels. There were no Christians, of course you'd have to believe in the timeline of the NT being wrote in linear sequence, of which it was not.

persecution of Jesus in the gospel might be a portrait of the persecution against Chiristians in general and represents
 

starman

Ad Honorem
Jan 2014
4,100
Connecticut
.....and he was crucified between 2 thiefs....
I take that with a grain of salt. As Crossan wrote the NT is not history remembered but prophecy historicized. Psalm 22(?) says “evildoers surround me” so being crucified between two thieves was probably just another invention to “fulfill prophecy.”
 

Yôḥānān

Ad Honorem
Feb 2012
3,888
Portugal
Sure it was, there was no such thing as Christians at the time of the gospels. There were no Christians, of course you'd have to believe in the timeline of the NT being wrote in linear sequence, of which it was not.
What do you mean by there were no Christians at the time of the gospels? That there were no Christians when the gospels were written or that Jesus first followers cannot be called Christians? Again where is it written in the quote that Jesus was a Christian?
 
Jul 2017
842
Crete
Mark is the oldest book in the New Testament, the only book called a Gospe;l and the author of Mark seemingly fulfilling Malachi 4:5, which says ' I will send you Elijah the prophet '
but also, Mark 1:2 interpolates Malachi and during the crucifixion, Jesus was crying too Elijah, 'Why have you abandoned me', so Jesus is playing the role of Elisha, in the Book of Kings,
Elijah abandons Elisha , note that Mark 15:34 is based on 2 Kings 2:12 (not Psalm 22).

-Parallel-
2 Kings 2:6 - Elijah said unto him, Tarry, I pray thee, here; for the LORD hath sent me to Jordan.
Mark 1:5 - Were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan (Eridanos)

2 Kings 2:12 - And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father
Mark 15:34 - Jesus cried with a loud voice, My God (ELI), my God(ELI)

2 Kings 2:12 - he took hold of his own clothes(ἱματίων ) and rent them in two(διέρρηξεν ) pieces.
Mark 15:24 - and they parted(διαμερίζω) his garments(ἱμάτιον)

Mat 28:2 - And, behold, there was a great Hurricane (σεισμός )
2 Kings 2:11 -Elijah went up by a whirlwind (συσσεισμῷ ) into heaven.
 

Yôḥānān

Ad Honorem
Feb 2012
3,888
Portugal
About the gospel of Mark there is a recent interview with Pierre Grimes in youtube where he raises some interesting points about it called
"Greek Philosophy and Early Christianity with Pierre Grimes" and also in one of his lectures about Jesus and Socrates available in the same site.
 
Jul 2017
842
Crete
Studying Mark 15, this story as being edited and the scene is way more brutal and bizarre, When Jesus was on the cross, he said "Why have you abandon me", He is referring to his flesh, He was being flayed, His Skin was leaving him behind, that' how flaying was performed, they are nailed to a tree and skinned, however this was performed on a Goat, whom were sacrificed, the goat-skin was made into a botabag, also a traditional Spanish liquid receptacle, this tradition most likely came from the Phoenicians.
 
Jul 2017
842
Crete
^^That's a new one. Can we have some source?:eek:
They are plenty of sources, it is mentioned in Herodotus and Plato.

Plato Euthyd. 285d
Then Ctesippus said: I too, Socrates, am ready to offer myself to be skinned by the strangers even more, if they choose, than they are doing now, if my hide is not to end by being made into a wine-skin (Askon) , like that of Marsyas, but into the shape of virtue.

Apollodorus, Bibliothekei.4.2
He was flayed alive in a cave near Celaenae for his hubris to challenge a god. Apollo then nailed Marsyas' skin to a pine tree, near Lake Aulocrene (the Turkish Karakuyu Gölü), which Strabo noted was full of the reeds from which the pipes were fashioned.

Herodotus 7.26
The skin of Marsyas the Silenus also hangs there; the Phrygian story tells that it was flayed off him and hung up by Apollo