The Manchus and The Jurchens

#91
Hansaram:The history of Chosen:

1.古朝鲜 GuChosen:
1.1 Qizi Chosen(BC1122-BC194), Qizi,one of Shang dynasty Imperial family.
《书经.洪范》:“周既克殷,以箕子归,武王亲虚己而问焉。箕子述《洪范》九筹。”周武王以师礼事箕子,不以箕子为臣,是故封于朝鲜使其自治。

1.2 Weiman Chosen BC195-BC108,Weiman was a general of Yan state.It's destoyed by Han Wu Di.

1.3 Han 4 state(BC108-313AD),Han wuDi destoied Weiman Chosen and set Han 4 state,it's recorded in SimaQian's Historical Records.

Early map of Han 4 state:


QiziChosen or Weiman Chosen or Han 4 state,They were 朝鲜 Chosen, it's a Chinese name,the king or ruler were Chinese.Today Korean most were from the south sam Han trible. The place where Sam Han trible activity were not controled by any Weiman Chosen or Han state. Chinese knew not much about Sam han trible in Han 4 states period.But the Koguryo had more relation with Guchosen.Koguryo destoyed Han 4 state in 313AD.

Chosen or Koguryo include so many ethnic groups,Mohe , Koguryo , Fuyu ,Han Chinese,were ethnic groups.



After Koguryo destoyed the Han 4 states,The goverment of Han 4 states was destroyed,but the people still here,they were include :Mohe,Koguryo,Fuyu ,and Han Chinese,there were controlled by Koguryo.

And later Shila and Tang dynasty destroyed Koguryo in 7th,its record that most people of Koguryo were moved to Han Chinese place. Shila finally outspread to north .But shila never controlled any land of north Peninsula before that.

In Ming dyansty, Ming emperor Zhu Yuan Zhang named new Korea kingdom as Chosen.Chosen were choosed ,because Emperor wanted to let people know this kingdom was a Vassal state like GuChosen,though they were not Han Chinese,but there were with much influence by Han Chinese culture,they were not Barbarians like manchus .Because GuCHOSEN was just such a good place.
Please don't link to pictures that immediately go broken.

Have you ever heard a variation of the changing a lightbulb joke where one person holds onto a lightbulb while 10 people hold up and turn that person? That's kind of like what you're saying. You don't need to name a kingdom something for the sole reasoning of proving you're a vassal. It's overkill. It's like forcing an entire nation of people to wear a certain hairstyle to prove their loyalty. Except in this case, it would be the new Korean king renaming his own kingdom to prove his loyalty to another. If it were really necessary, every kingdom surrounding China would be named after a past vassal of China. (But oh wait, how do we know these past vassals were loyal to China when they were not named after even earlier vassals?)
 
Last edited:
May 2013
793
usa
#92
the questions are huge questions. : )

at first, we need to difference these points.

1. manchus and jurchens are ethnic group, they are different ethnic, but they have related to each other.

2. qing regime and jin regime are different regimes, they founded by different groups, the places of origin are different, the two gegimes have not inheritance relationship.

3. why say that jurchens had not much records?
《金史》 《松漠纪闻》《祖宗实录》etc.

that view is wrong, because manchus are related to jurchens. but say "they are koreans," I only can say : haha~~

koreans have some relates with jurchens, but influence is not much, korean nationalists exaggerated their influence to jurchens and distorted their influence in manchus.
Maybe they are related to shilla kims.... Lighter skin, gold name, genetics, relative vicinity as well as yayoi culture proabably originate in manchuria regardless of if you call that area chinese, korean, or mongol.
 
Feb 2011
1,018
#93
Maybe they are related to shilla kims.... Lighter skin, gold name, genetics, relative vicinity as well as yayoi culture proabably originate in manchuria regardless of if you call that area chinese, korean, or mongol.
I don't think there is a shred of solid evidence for the Wanyans being related to the Kims.
 
May 2017
184
indo
#94
stop this all non-sense, manchu are not korean. your korean ancestor never regard manchu as brother and sister, your korean ancestor regard manchu as orangke / orangkae, literally translation "barbarian".

and stop claiming that you korean related with altaic people, you korean are tungus people and speak tungus language, not altaic.

korean was never nomadic or semi nomadic people.
 
Sep 2016
453
天下
#95
stop this all non-sense, manchu are not korean. your korean ancestor never regard manchu as brother and sister, your korean ancestor regard manchu as orangke / orangkae, literally translation "barbarian".

and stop claiming that you korean related with altaic people, you korean are tungus people and speak tungus language, not altaic.

korean was never nomadic or semi nomadic people.
1. Koreans don't speak a Tungusic language.
2. This thread is 6 years old.
 
Likes: Haakbus

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