The Missing women of Sparta and its effect on the city.,

Nov 2011
979
The Bluff
#11
Your logic is impeccable.Question somehow I came up either on my own or from something else that Archidamus was 14 when this happened. Yet Plutarch speakis of him leading the soldiers out of town. What do you think? He died two years after the disaster of Plataea in the Pelop. War.
While one can only guess at the birth year of Archidamus, his death would seem to be in 427/6 - perhaps that winter as his son Agis II is king in 426. Both Diodoros and Plutarch describe him as king with Plutarch adding he was in his fourth year as such. The king he replaced was Leotychidas. This king was exiled sometime around 475/4 for apparently accepting bribes on a campaign. Now, such kings were not always immediately replaced (such as Kleomenes I who actually returned from exile as king) so we do not know if Archidamus immediately ascended the throne or sometime afterwards. Either way, were he not of age one would expect such to be mentioned as he would have a regent.
 
Feb 2012
3,888
Portugal
#12
From what I remember reading the declining number of citizens is attributed to the fact that the Spartans had a law that those who were not able to pay the communal meal were striped of citizenship.
Nevertheless the peak of Sparta as a power was with Agesilaus II when both causes were already in effect. Besides the inability to reform Plutarch seems to suggest that the laws of Lycurgus were created to protect the city not to project its power excessively.
 
Likes: bedb
Sep 2014
841
Texas
#13
From what I remember reading the declining number of citizens is attributed to the fact that the Spartans had a law that those who were not able to pay the communal meal were striped of citizenship.
Nevertheless the peak of Sparta as a power was with Agesilaus II when both causes were already in effect. Besides the inability to reform Plutarch seems to suggest that the laws of Lycurgus were created to protect the city not to project its power excessively.
The mother and grandmother of Agis IV were killed because they supported his policy of returning land to the disenfranchised. I read that Cleomenes III actually did return land and increased the army by 7000 men. But by then it was really too late as Sparta had lost its will to win.

Dr. Schrader looked at a different aspect and speculated that the death of the women would have a terrible effect on the population.
 
Likes: Yôḥānān
Nov 2011
979
The Bluff
#14
The mother and grandmother of Agis IV were killed because they supported his policy of returning land to the disenfranchised. I read that Cleomenes III actually did return land and increased the army by 7000 men. But by then it was really too late as Sparta had lost its will to win.
Kleomenes III did redistribute land in his putsch of 226. This was no great social experiment as some viewed it but a base grab for power. Kleomemes eliminated the ephorate (literally), banished 80 of the 100 or so families which owned the land and then redistributed 4,000 allotments to 4,000 of "the most promising of the perioikoi, and thus raised a body of four thousand men-at‑arms, whom he taught to use a long pike, held in both hands, instead of a short spear, and to carry their shields by a strap instead of by a fixed handle" (Plut. Kelom. 11.2). Instant Spartan army; one of newly enfranchised homoioi and beholden to Kleomenes. He installed his brother as co-king and then set off on a rapid campaign of conquest within the Peloponnese; a campaign mostly aimed at Aratos' Achaian League. In the crisis of 222 Kleomenes, ever practical, allowed 2,000 helots to purchase their freedom and also trained them as Macedonian phalangites over the winter prior to Sellasia (ibid, 23.1). Kleomenes was a lot of things - a tyrant to the Megalopolitan Polybios for example - but one of them was not a social worker. Everything was calculated to his advantage.
 
Sep 2014
841
Texas
#15
Kleomenes III did redistribute land in his putsch of 226. This was no great social experiment as some viewed it but a base grab for power. Kleomemes eliminated the ephorate (literally), banished 80 of the 100 or so families which owned the land and then redistributed 4,000 allotments to 4,000 of "the most promising of the perioikoi, and thus raised a body of four thousand men-at‑arms, whom he taught to use a long pike, held in both hands, instead of a short spear, and to carry their shields by a strap instead of by a fixed handle" (Plut. Kelom. 11.2). Instant Spartan army; one of newly enfranchised homoioi and beholden to Kleomenes. He installed his brother as co-king and then set off on a rapid campaign of conquest within the Peloponnese; a campaign mostly aimed at Aratos' Achaian League. In the crisis of 222 Kleomenes, ever practical, allowed 2,000 helots to purchase their freedom and also trained them as Macedonian phalangites over the winter prior to Sellasia (ibid, 23.1). Kleomenes was a lot of things - a tyrant to the Megalopolitan Polybios for example - but one of them was not a social worker. Everything was calculated to his advantage.
Cleomenes must have known his time was running out when he sent his mother and children to Egypt.
 

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