- Jan 2015
- Ontario, Canada
Not a single time did I cite Nazi propaganda. Above I posted one of the books cited by Tokugawa.Actually, all l have seen from you in sources is Nazi propaganda articles. His dismissal of these sources without any back up from reputable sites is well founded.
As for known atrocities against ethnic Germans which did take place the only one that I have been able to find is an incident which took place after war had broken out at a place called Bydgoszcz where at most 400 were killed.
It was this incident which was the basis for the initial propaganda claim of 5.800 ethnic German deaths, which was later increased to 58,000 in a propaganda report published in 1940.
I have found no reputable source which states that mass killing of ethnic Germans took place in Poland before war broke out.
Bloody Sunday (1939) - Wikipedia
So far all Pugsville has done is:
>"source every single statement you've ever made"
>Tokugawa posts sources
>"you just believe random guys on the internet"
>I post a relevant excerpt from one of the sources
>"the sources are wrong because it's German propaganda"
>I face palm
There were multiple incidents. Bloody Sunday is the most talked about.
"Meanwhile, Goebbels’s propaganda machine had gone into overdrive to persuade Germans that the invasion had been inevitable in the light of a Polish threat of genocide against the ethnic Germans in their midst. The nationalistic military regime in Poland had indeed discriminated heavily against the German ethnic minority in the interwar years. At the onset of the German invasion in September 1939, gripped by fears of sabotage behind the lines, it had arrested between ten and fifteen thousand ethnic Germans and marched them towards the eastern part of the country, beating laggards and shooting many of those who gave up through exhaustion. There were also widespread attacks on members of the ethnic German minority, most of whom had made no attempt to disguise their desire to return to the German Reich ever since their forcible incorporation into Poland at the end of the First World War. Altogether, around 2,000 ethnic Germans were killed in mass shootings or died from exhaustion on the marches. Some 300 were killed in Bromberg (Bydgoszcz), where local ethnic Germans had staged an armed uprising against the town’s garrison in the belief that the war was virtually over, and had been killed by the enraged Poles. These events were cynically exploited by Goebbels’s Propaganda Ministry to win maximum support in Germany for the invasion." - The Third Reich at War chapter 1
I'm saying that there is reason to believe that up to 5,000 or 6,000 Germans were killed.So you are basically claiming that the Poles must have killed at least 5,000 because that is the least of the Nazi claims used to justify their invasion.
This places a level of trust in Nazi propaganda that is at best laughable and at worst disturbing
No the number given of 5,000 is not the 5,800 that died on Bloody Sunday. It is the total estimate of dead in Western Poland. Perhaps 6,000 total if we include other areas of Poland.
Now an unnecessary point to make my case but which I'll do anyway.
Even if I was relying on the WW2 German sources it wouldn't have mattered because the propaganda source you are referring to was not published until 1940 which did inflate 5,800 supposed deaths near Bromberg to 58,000 or 60,000. The original figure was not intended as propaganda, this was an actual study conducted by the Germans on Bloody Sunday which they eventually exploited for propaganda usage.