"The Moors civilized Europe" theory

Jun 2015
5,713
UK
#11
No. Black nationalists make up **** to make themselves feel better, that's it.

They're bringing up the point how EUrope was dark at that time, no. it wasn't. Europe is founded on the Romans and Greeks, who had never met the Moors at the time, who didn't exist during the Roman/Greek periods.

The Indian, Babylonian, Persian, and other influences were more pressing on early medieval Europe, than any Moorish influence. Bringing mathematics, hahaha..no. I think again the Romans, Greeks, Indians, Chinese, etc. "brought mathematics" to Europe long before any Moors did. Besides, if the MOors were so strong, how come they lost their lands and over a 1000 years couldn't have held off the Spanish?
 
Jun 2015
5,713
UK
#12
but isn't it conventional wisdom that the Arab World (Golden Age of Islam) was the most advanced society scientifically, technologically

and then the Arabic world brought Europeans much knowledge.....

and then somehow it shifted where Europe developed the vast majority of modern science and technology while the Arab World fell behind?

so the Arab World did have alot to do with the intellectual development of Europe to some extent
Arabs weren't black either, no more than they are now. The Arabs actually saved a lot of lost Roman and Greek writings.

It was a complex mix, since both the Arabs at the time and the Greeks, and the Mesopotamians before them, contributed to modern science and philosophy.
 
Dec 2015
3,598
USA
#13
i have often heard this theory tossed around on the internet..Its often parroted by afrocentrist, pan-african elements..

They claim that the Moors were Black, and that they came to Europe, through Spain and civilized the White Europeans

they brought Europe civilization, they brought Europe mathematics, philosophy, science, literature etc..

often many people disagree with this, saying that the Moorish influence is overrated and overexaggerated, many deny it by saying the Moors were not of "Black"/African descent

despite the various fair and legit criticisms to this theory, is there some truth to it?
The Christian Europeans of the middle ages(sometimes erroneously referred to as the dark ages) were influenced by the success of both Arab and African Muslims(who themselves were influenced by the work of Greeks and Indians) of the middle ages. But also, the Muslims of the middle ages or as they may have at the time been called...the Moors...learned from Christian Europeans such as Pope Sylvester II, also known as the scientific Pope.
 
Dec 2015
205
U.S.
#14
The Moors brought us Math because we had no concept of mathematics since we were using the Roman numerals which don't enable you to add, subtract, multiply, and divide. The Moors (which contain many peoples such as Turks, Persians, Arabs, Africans...) brought us their numbering system which we still use today. Yes, 1, 2, 3... are from the Arabs and those numbers are Arabic. Using their numerical system gave us the ability to perform mathematical functions.

Ibn Sina was the first person to document and develop medicine. They had the first hospitals, medical schools, etc.

We just don't want to accept we didn't used to be #1. We were ignorant and had no idea that cleanliness affected health. They were using all kinds of ways to clean their environment when we were up here in Europe bathing once a year or much much less.
 
Dec 2015
3,598
USA
#15
The Moors may have added to learning and culture in Europe, but to say they "civilized" Europe, as if Europe, before the Moors' arrival, was bereft of mathematics, philosophy, science, literature, etc, is nonsense.
I have rarely if ever heard modern day Muslims or Christians suggesting that the Moors civilized Europe.
 
Nov 2010
7,594
Cornwall
#16
Not just a few. so many Moors were black that many Europeans began to refer to all Black Africans as Moors.
Yes indeed, but as far as Spain is concerned, these 'Moors' are Muslims, end of story. As I've tried to explain innumerable times the very varied origins of Spain's Muslim population. To little avail it seems.

To the OP:
The Almoravid Empire was a fundamentalist, mainly Berber-ruled Empire that stretched from the 3 rivers in sub-Saharan Africa to the north of Spain to Tunisia from the mid 11th to mid 12th centuries (one of these 'Moors' in your thinking). One of the reasons for it's decline and the rise of the even more radical Almohads, was that the Almoravid troops, governors and functionaries were heavily corrupted by the more fun-loving, cultured and 'civilised' Muslims of Spain, and that this culture and 'good loving' was actually exported back to the Almoravid heartland around Marrakesh. IE they were 'civilised' by the European Muslims they invaded.

Discuss.
 
Dec 2015
3,598
USA
#17
The Moors may have added to learning and culture in Europe, but to say they "civilized" Europe, as if Europe, before the Moors' arrival, was bereft of mathematics, philosophy, science, literature, etc, is nonsense.
The Moors brought us Math because we had no concept of mathematics since we were using the Roman numerals which don't enable you to add, subtract, multiply, and divide. The Moors (which contain many peoples such as Turks, Persians, Arabs, Africans...) brought us their numbering system which we still use today. Yes, 1, 2, 3... are from the Arabs and those numbers are Arabic. Using their numerical system gave us the ability to perform mathematical functions.

Ibn Sina was the first person to document and develop medicine. They had the first hospitals, medical schools, etc.

We just don't want to accept we didn't used to be #1. We were ignorant and had no idea that cleanliness affected health. They were using all kinds of ways to clean their environment when we were up here in Europe bathing once a year or much much less.
There was once a time when humans viewed the insides of their bodies as being made of Earth, water, fire and air. Certainly things have changed over time...I would say though that what might be overlooked wrt middle ages would be the contributions of Catholic Europeans. From the 10th century we see the likes of Pope Sylvester II also known as the scientific Pope. Around the end of the middle ages we see the 16th century French Catholic scholar Jean Bodin. Bodin believed it was possible for Jews, Muslims and Christians in Europe to live in harmony...Bodin saw the 15th-16th century Ottoman Empire as a place of religious tolerance, a place to learn from.
 
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Jun 2015
5,713
UK
#18
Hippocrates? Western medicine is based largely on his philosophies, in addition to Romans such as Galen Galen. No, I think many people recognise Europe wasn't the only top dog or was powerful together with China or India.

You neglect to mention the mathematical constructs from the Babylonians like equations, the Greeks invented calculus, etc. What about Archimedes who wasn't Moorish? Or Euclid? Was he Moorish?

If this is presented that Europe was some backwater and massively enlightened by the Moors, then no. Yep, the Moors/Arabs didn't' contribute a lot, but the suggestion their contribution to science was the most, and that Europeans didn't use Roman or Greek or Persian texts at the time of their invasion of Spain is bull....

The Crusaders long after the Moors initially invaded were a more direct bringer of Arab/Islamic knowledge, which made sense as they were in the Arab heartlands. Some MOors in 8th century CE Spain's influence was overstated.
 
Nov 2010
7,594
Cornwall
#19
There was once a time when humans viewed the insides of their bodies as being made of Earth, wind, fire and air. Certainly things have changed over time...I would say though that what might be overlooked wrt middle ages would be the contributions of Catholic Europeans. From the 10th century we see the likes of Pope Sylvester II also known as the scientific Pope. Around the end of the middle ages we see the 16th century French Catholic scholar Jean Bodin. Bodin believed it was possible for Jews, Muslims and Christians in Europe to live in harmony...Bodin saw the 15th-16th century Ottoman Empire as a place of religious tolerance, a place to learn from.
If only he could have had an audience with Ferdinand and Isobel! He might have changed the world.
 
Nov 2015
1,016
Ayton
#20
The Moors came into Europe with civilisation but it wore off them So when they went back to Africa, they had run out of Civilisation. That, or they didn't want it and gave it to the Europeans to see if they could do anything with it.

That is my theory wot I thought of all by myself.

Another theory is that the Moors came to England and founded a branch of their familly known as the Yorkshire Moors.

Thank you, and good bye.
 

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