The most profound story of the Bible.

MG1962a

Ad Honorem
Mar 2019
2,163
Kansas
Then it's philosophy, not ancient history.

Is Noah's Arc history?
Absolutely. There is a clear linear progression from the earliest forms of writing to what we now know as the story of the Ark. If I am correct there are at least 5 identifiable older variations of the same story.

Further Noah's Ark played a major role in the collapse of Creationism as a concept. Before the age of discovery it was believable (and believed that Noah got two of every animal and stuffed them in his ship. As we began to explore more of the world, it quickly became apparent we needed to go looking for better explanations.

That was the birth of Geology, which gave birth to Paleontology which ultimately gave birth to the Theory of Evolution.
 

Ighayere

Ad Honorem
Jul 2012
2,652
Benin City, Nigeria
Thoughts??
I thought the mainstream/standard view was that the Book of Job was the most profound story. Or that Ecclesiastes was the most profound book if one is considering all of the books, including ones that don't have much of a narrative/story. Or maybe the Book of Revelation if one pretends to understand what it says.

Never heard of the story of the tower of Babel referred to as the most profound story in the Bible by anyone ever. Also it seems like legends similar to the tower of Babel were present in multiple places in the world in the past, so it was perhaps not a particularly unique idea as an attempt at an explanation for the divergence of languages.
 
Nov 2019
106
Memphis TN
I see how I misread you (or rather, carelessly read you). I think the Bible's caution has to do with the crooked timber of the human condition. We have lots of material progress nowadays - in fact more progress than ever before in human history. Are we a happy generation? I would venture to say not. Are we a moral generation? Once again, I will venture to say not. For example (and I'm shooting from the hip with my figures here) the wars and atrocities of the 20th century surely killed more people than the atrocities of the previous thousand years. Material progress not wedded to virtue can have devastating results, the positive side of progress notwithstanding.
I’m not sure your figure works when scaled per capita.

What percentage of the population was dying in wars.. which we would still have to subtract those saved from medical advances and such...

Your point is valid though, even if rare.. there is no law of physics stopping us from discovering something that is all bad..

That said I have never once heard anyone else with my interpretation.. not saying I’m the first to think of it, lol..

Just I haven’t seen others and came to that conclusion independently after hearing the story as an adult.

I have never ever seen a Christian cast the Tower of Babel as having a deeper meaning than “don’t test god”.






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Jul 2019
802
New Jersey
I thought the mainstream/standard view was that the Book of Job was the most profound story. Or that Ecclesiastes was the most profound book if one is considering all of the books, including ones that don't have much of a narrative/story. Or maybe the Book of Revelation if one pretends to understand what it says.

Never heard of the story of the tower of Babel referred to as the most profound story in the Bible by anyone ever. Also it seems like legends similar to the tower of Babel were present in multiple places in the world in the past, so it was perhaps not a particularly unique idea as an attempt at an explanation for the divergence of languages.
Job has the most profound dialogue. It's not much of a story, though. It has a little narrative scaffolding at the beginning and end, but that's not the profound part of the book. However I, too, would disagree on the point of the Tower of Babel being the most profound story - I think the Tree in the Garden would win that competition.
 
Nov 2019
106
Memphis TN
Job has the most profound dialogue. It's not much of a story, though. It has a little narrative scaffolding at the beginning and end, but that's not the profound part of the book. However I, too, would disagree on the point of the Tower of Babel being the most profound story - I think the Tree in the Garden would win that competition.

Well I think it is profound if not looked at from the normal Christian narrative..

I don’t find much profound at all in the rest..

What is profound about god torturing job and murdering his innocent family over a bet with satan?!!

That isn’t profound it is horrifying..

I do not see the tree as profound because it doesn’t make sense , in the context of the Bible..

Why would god make the tree so accessible if he didn’t want them to eat it?

And others..



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Nov 2019
106
Memphis TN
Then it's philosophy, not ancient history.

Is Noah's Arc history? Is the Garden of Eden history? They are made up stories, parables, not history.
It is an OP about how an ancient philosopher was so correctly able to predict the fact that if time and distance were no longer a barrier. There is nothing humanity can not achieve..

The opposite of the biblical religious narrative...

I think you posted without reading the OP and are playing catch up..


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Nov 2019
106
Memphis TN
Then it's philosophy, not ancient history.

Is Noah's Arc history? Is the Garden of Eden history? They are made up stories, parables, not history.
No , not if you are dissecting it from the angle of miracles and such.. but if you are dissecting it from the angle of understand the people of the day.....

Then yea it is extremely relevant.


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Nov 2019
106
Memphis TN
I thought the mainstream/standard view was that the Book of Job was the most profound story. Or that Ecclesiastes was the most profound book if one is considering all of the books, including ones that don't have much of a narrative/story. Or maybe the Book of Revelation if one pretends to understand what it says.

Never heard of the story of the tower of Babel referred to as the most profound story in the Bible by anyone ever. Also it seems like legends similar to the tower of Babel were present in multiple places in the world in the past, so it was perhaps not a particularly unique idea as an attempt at an explanation for the divergence of languages.
Ps... I missed you said the mainstream view and not that it was your view.. fyi


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Jul 2019
802
New Jersey
I’m not sure your figure works when scaled per capita.

What percentage of the population was dying in wars.. which we would still have to subtract those saved from medical advances and such...
I'm not trying to make a comprehensive case that the world was better or worse before modernity, only that great advances come with great capacities for evil, and if there's one thing that the 20th Century has shown us it's that that evil will be unleashed. The Nazis were scientific about their genocide.

That said I have never once heard anyone else with my interpretation.. not saying I’m the first to think of it, lol..

Just I haven’t seen others and came to that conclusion independently after hearing the story as an adult.

I have never ever seen a Christian cast the Tower of Babel as having a deeper meaning than “don’t test god”.
I can't speak for contemporary Christian interpretation, but your interpretation (of mankind's abilities if only we unify) falls pretty squarely within the Rabbinic tradition. I can't think of sources off the top of my head, but I have definitely heard that point made plenty of times .

Well I think it is profound if not looked at from the normal Christian narrative..

I don’t find much profound at all in the rest..

What is profound about god torturing job and murdering his innocent family over a bet with satan?!!

That isn’t profound it is horrifying..

I do not see the tree as profound because it doesn’t make sense , in the context of the Bible..

Why would god make the tree so accessible if he didn’t want them to eat it?

And others..
The problem is that your approaching scripture with a very literalist approach (as is indeed the dominant mode of interpretation among Evangelical Protestants and New Atheists).

The story of the Tree is not an attempt at relating a historical event about some fellow named Adam. It's an allegorical commentary on the state of humanity (remember, Adam is simply Hebrew for "man" - his story is all of our stories). If you read the story closely, you see it's a commentary on the link between the intellect and sexuality (man's new intellect is manifested in shame at his nakedness, the snake was a common phallic symbol in antiquity, Adam's first copulation occurring right after the story, etc), the link between man's constant striving to take more than his share and his resultant angst (the ambitions of man require him to now live by the sweat of his brow, etc), and a moralistic lesson on the parallels between spiritual death (disobeying God) and physical death. All that wrapped up in a single simple narrative which even a child can grasp. If that's not profundity then I don't know what is.

We can talk for days about the different facets of the story and how they intersect with one another, and the beauty of it is that the whole thing is cloaked is such deceptively simple form.

You just have to read deeper and you'll see a tremendous amount of profundity behind the stories in the Bible. You don't need to be a believer to see that.
 
Last edited:
Nov 2019
106
Memphis TN
I'm not trying to make a comprehensive case that the world was better or worse before modernity, only that great advances come with great capacities for evil, and if there's one thing that the 20th Century has shown us it's that that evil will be unleashed. The Nazis were scientific about their genocide.



I can't speak for contemporary Christian interpretation, but your interpretation (of mankind's abilities if only we unify) falls pretty squarely within the Rabbinic tradition. I can't think of sources off the top of my head, but I have definitely heard that point made plenty of times .



The problem is that your approaching scripture with a very literalist approach (as is indeed the dominant mode of interpretation among Evangelical Protestants and New Atheists).

The story of the Tree is not an attempt at relating a historical event about some fellow named Adam. It's an allegorical commentary on the state of humanity (remember, Adam is simply Hebrew for "man" - his story is all of our stories). If you read the story closely, you see it's a commentary on the link between the intellect and sexuality (man's new intellect is manifested in shame at his nakedness, the snake was a common phallic symbol in antiquity, Adam's first copulation occurring right after the story, etc), the link between man's constant striving to take more than his share and his resultant angst (the ambitions of man require him to now live by the sweat of his brow, etc), and a moralistic lesson on the parallels between spiritual death (disobeying God) and physical death. All that wrapped up in a single simple narrative which even a child can grasp. If that's not profundity then I don't know what is.

We can talk for days about the different facets of the story and how they intersect with one another, and the beauty of it is that the whole thing is cloaked is such deceptively simple form.

You just have to read deeper and you'll see a tremendous amount of profundity behind the stories in the Bible. You don't need to be a believer to see that.
A) Nice!!!

Honestly, even though I fully knew it was an OT story completely neglected to think about the Hebrew perspectives..

B) imho once you get into symbolism and such there are no objective truths.. so I do not see the point in any conversation where I think it symbolizes X and you think it symbolizes Y..

You can pull any narrative out of that you want too.. and if your doing that any profound thing you pull out of it might not be from the author or his times.. it might just be you or me..

C) I don’t think it is very helpful to put the actual story to the side and focus on “what they really meant..”

You can do that with anything in any direction...

I think often that is used to justify atrocities or verses that promote atrocities..

For example..and obviously an extreme one...

“When the Bible says “thou shalt not suffer a witch to live”.. I think you take its word for it and do not decide “well they really mean spiritually.. not to actually murder people..”


When in reality they did not suffer people they considered witches to live in that time period.. that wasn’t symbolism...

They literally believed in Demons and thought they should be hunted and killed... usually meaning torturing the poor little old lady at the edge of town..








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